Tell me why my personal belief is wrong

[Spirit of Light]

The formation of planets is the result of gravity acting on matter, more specifically in accretion discs from solar formations (which also happens due to the influence of gravity).

These are physical processes.

So unless you also believe that "god" is a collection of physical processes, that would be a wrong belief.

In my understanding and belief, God created it all and put it in motion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The "evidence" in religious advancement comes from within, by the practitionair get closer to being perfect in words, actions and thoughts. So no the evidence you as a science person looking for are different than a religious person look for evidence of truth

The problem is that this "religious personal evidence" is not a pathway to truth.
Instead, it is a pathway to ending op with false beliefs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You guys seem to look away when the word belief or believe are used.

Yes. Because baseless beliefs are irrelevant and potentially infinite in number.

However, they become very relevant once they start affecting behaviour of believers.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes. Because baseless beliefs are irrelevant and potentially infinite in number.

However, they become very relevant once they start affecting behaviour of believers.

To YOU it is baseless and irrelevant. But to a believer it is not baseless and irrelevant. Like it or not, that is how it is

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would reply.
I do not have a problem with your belief, it is not up to me to say if you believe something that could be wrong, because i do not know or understand enough about your faith.

How about if it was an ISIS follower who asks that question?
Or an Aztec who engages in human sacrifice?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

To YOU it is baseless and irrelevant. But to a believer it is not baseless and irrelevant. Like it or not, that is how it is

Here is the trick for how some people do it. It comes in many variations but the general trick is this:
Only that which is independent of brains is relevant.
The joke is that it is relevant is dependent on brains.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's the theories and observations that are generally called 'facts'.

No. Facts are data. Data coming from observation, measurements, etc.
Theories explain facts.
Theories aren't facts. And never will be facts.
Theories are explanations of sets of facts.

A fact is an idea so well evidenced that dismissing it would be unreasonable.

No. Facts aren't "idea's".

Facts = data.

Data (facts) require an explanation. Why are the facts what they are? How did they come about?

You develop a hypothesis to answer those questions.
After rigorous testing and confirmation of that hypothesis, it might get promoted to "theory".
That's the final graduation stage of an idea in science.

And while we are at it with the jargon explanation: laws aren't theories and never were.
Laws are generalizations or abstractions of sets of facts.
Laws, just like facts, require an explanation.

Hypothesis / theories attempt to give that explanation.


Main point in context of this sub conversation here anyhow: facts = data

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My belief saved my life

How so?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In my understanding and belief, God created it all and put it in motion.

You have previously already said that you have no understanding at all concerning how this god supposedly created the earth.

So to then say "in my understanding, god dun it" is very very meaningless.

I just gave you the demonstrable, independently verifiable findings of science concerning the topic of planetary formation.

You seem to be dismissing it at face value and sticking with your belief of which you have already acknowledged that you don't even understand it.

So you reject very well understood and independently verifiable physical processes in favor of not-at-all-understood and undemonstrable/unfalsifiable supernatural activity?

If that is the case, then answering your OP is an exercise in futility.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How about if it was an ISIS follower who asks that question?
Or an Aztec who engages in human sacrifice?

They are still in their right to believe what they do, i don't have to agree with them. I do not have a lot of knowledge about extreme views and beliefs, i could advice that killing is wrong, but if they listen is an other thing.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How so?

A month ago i had a suicide attempt because of some bullies, but in the very last moment i remembered Baha'i'ullah's teaching. And i was able to get medical help so i did not pass away.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

To YOU it is baseless and irrelevant.

It is baseless and irrelevant to anyone who actually cares about what is actually true.

If you don't really care about your beliefs being accurate... then off course evidence and rational justification is not going to be important.

But to a believer it is not baseless and irrelevant. Like it or not, that is how it is

Sure. But your OP asks about why we think your beliefs are wrong.
And to answer that question, one must necessarily examine the evidence in support of the beliefs and/or evidence that flies in the face of it. Because that is how you tell accurate beliefs from wrong beliefs.

So...to repeat myself.... if the question is "what is true/wrong", then any expression of baseless claims / beliefs is going to be irrelevant. Because to answer that question, one necessarily has to deal with evidence. Otherwise, the question is unanswerable.


You can't ask people "why am I wrong" and then refuse to deal with evidence.
That's like challenging someone for a tennis match and then refusing to leave your chair.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

They are still in their right to believe what they do, i don't have to agree with them. I do not have a lot of knowledge about extreme views and beliefs, i could advice that killing is wrong, but if they listen is an other thing.

Well, I believe that killing is okay in some cases and not okay is others. But you don't listen to me and I don't listen to you. So it works both ways.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You have previously already said that you have no understanding at all concerning how this god supposedly created the earth.

So to then say "in my understanding, god dun it" is very very meaningless.

I just gave you the demonstrable, independently verifiable findings of science concerning the topic of planetary formation.

You seem to be dismissing it at face value and sticking with your belief of which you have already acknowledged that you don't even understand it.

So you reject very well understood and independently verifiable physical processes in favor of not-at-all-understood and undemonstrable/unfalsifiable supernatural activity?

If that is the case, then answering your OP is an exercise in futility.

I am fairly new to baha'i faith so yes i do not know it all or understand it all, but i have faith in the teaching

 

[Spirit of Light]

It is baseless and irrelevant to anyone who actually cares about what is actually true.

If you don't really care about your beliefs being accurate... then off course evidence and rational justification is not going to be important.



Sure. But your OP asks about why we think your beliefs are wrong.
And to answer that question, one must necessarily examine the evidence in support of the beliefs. Because that is how you tell accurate beliefs from wrong beliefs.

So...to repeat myself.... if the question is "what is true/wrong", then any expression of baseless claims / beliefs is going to be irrelevant. Because to answer that question, one necessarily has to deal with supporting evidence. Otherwise, the question is unanswerable.


You can't ask people "why am I wrong" and then refuse to deal with evidence.
That's like challenging someone for a tennis match and then refusing to leave your chair.

Your "evidence" is not evidence i see as truth, because you base your views on physical world, not the religious/spiritual teaching and way of thinking

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well, I believe that killing is okay in some cases and not okay is others. But you don't listen to me and I don't listen to you. So it works both ways.

I don't listen to @TagliatelliMonster either not a single word actually

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't listen to @TagliatelliMonster either not a single word actually

Well, some of my follow atheists are not my fellow humans in how we value humans. They are still humans, but we don't share a common value system despite being atheists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your "evidence" is not evidence i see as truth, because you base your views on physical world, not the religious/spiritual teaching and way of thinking

Right.

So therefor as I said, your OP question is meaningless.
There is no possible answer to that question that you would accept.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Right.

So therefor as I said, your OP question is meaningless.
There is no possible answer to that question that you would accept.

@Seeker of White Light

The joke is that meaningless and meaningful is both non-physical according to what physical is.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Right.

So therefor as I said, your OP question is meaningless.
There is no possible answer to that question that you would accept.

From you, no.
From others theists and atheists alike, yes i would accept many things they say.