Teenagers Set Dog on Fire

[DallasApple]

Why wouldn't i care?

Its all well and good to preach about how killing things is wrong and how much you love all of God's creations and what not, but could you do it?

Happened to me about 4 weeks ago, and a few months ago (i posted a thread on here about it) and was pretty damn awful actually. Mainly rabbits around the area i work. If i took one to the vet they'd simply kill it. So what would you do? Let it sit there in the middle of the road writhing in agony or kill it, and stop the suffering. Sure you'd have it on your conscience, but at least you know you stopped it from suffering as much as possible.

I just couldn't run over it..I dont know its something about the car I guess.I would have put the writhing bloody animal in my car and let it die on my bed probably.

Then my husband would come home from work and ask me why a dead bloody rabbit was on our bed I suppose.

But your right..a vet isnt going to go to extremes to save a wild rabbit that got hit by a car.And if they did..they would hand you a very large bill.(whether it was dead or alive)

Love

DAllas

 

[Magic Man]

I can and did, and I think what I said was spot on. I think she's sick for torturing creatures, and I think she should be ashamed of herself. That's how I feel about it.

Then, there's something wrong. If you don't see how condescending that was, there's a problem.

I get angry at double standards in people, and I get even angrier when they end up being disrespectful to life - it's a gut reaction to me.

then you need to control your gut reactions, or at least realize how they come out and that they aren't conducive to polite conversation. Besides, I'm not really sure what this alleged double standard is here.

No, I haven't. Obviously you know whereismynote much better than you know me. I couldn't kill anything unless it had done something to me first. And then, yes, I'd feel bad for it.

You said before that you've killed a mosquito. So, were you wrong then, or are you wrong now? Oh, wait, I guess what you mean is that that mosquito landed on you, which would fit the description of "doing something to you first". That would be one way to rationalize it.

No.

I said that it's wrong to torture things - including bugs just for fun.
I said that it's wrong to torture any living thing just for fun.
Whereismynote... said that she enjoyed putting hot wax on creatures just for fun.

THAT is sick. And you may not think so, but then again, I think it's wrong that you DON'T think so - and that's just going to have to be the way things are on this one.

Exactly. Hannah said she enjoyed doing that. Actually she didn't. She said she used to do it. She didn't say she still does it.

The point is that a lot of kids do stuff like that because insects are so different from humans. Generally they grow up and stop doing it because they realize it's cruel. Regardless, though, it's not sick like doing it to a dog is because of how different the two creatures are.

I'm not sure, but you sure seem to be defending them - these imaginary people. :areyoucra

Nope. That's the problem. You think I'm defending these imaginary people you've created. I'm not. As soon as you want to really read my arguments, we might get somewhere.

But I believe in personal responsibility, and hannah seemed to be bragging about her stint with abuse of small bugs. She has admitted that she doesn't even feel bad about it. So really you're defending someone who's perfectly fine with torturing things so long as it's not cute and cuddly. That's wrong to me.

Yeah, you're the only one who believes in personal responsibility.

She isn't ashamed of it is what she said. She shouldn't be. While it's not really the right thing to do, there's no need to feel ashamed about doing it as a kid. Kids also steal stuff sometimes, like I did, and lie and other bad stuff. They're kids. They don't need to feel ashamed of it later on, as long as they realize they shouldn't do it anymore.

Also, we're not defending someone who's perfectly fine with torturing things so long as they're not cute and cuddly. However, you're missing the key idea here, which is that we feel connected to things that are cute and cuddly. Those things are more like us. So, there's a close relation between torturing or killing something like that and torturing or killing a human. There is no such close relation between an insect and a human. The problem is that you're ignoring that huge difference.

 

[Buttons*]

Buttons..I take spiders out on a newspaper.Mostly I just leave them be even in my house.

Im not saying that its "right"..and it should be "encouraged" to kill a bug for not reason.I scolded my nephew recently he and his friends got a hold of a spider and put it in a jar and were it spraying with some sort of arosal spray.

I explained to him(them) that was cruel and they had no business doing that.Then I released the spider..I killed it(swiftly) because I coudl see it was not doing very well after its treament.

I told them they should be ashamed of themselves.But he is only 7.I certaintly did not tell him he was SICK.

Love

Dallas

All I said to Hannah at first is that she should be ashamed of herself, but she's not - and everyone is defending her on the fact that it was ok for her to torture bugs.

This is exactly the first thing I said to her about it:

First of all, I think that behavior towards another living thing - in any form, is absolutely horrendous. You should be ashamed. Now, if something was attacking you, I understand that it's you or the thing. But in this context, going outside, where the bugs are minding their own business, and covering them with wax, is pretty sadistic. I think it's wrong.

So basically, I did the same thing you did to your nephew. I'm not wrong on this if you did the same thing.

I did say this:

Dogs, rats, insects, horses, it makes no difference. Torture is torture, and it's sick.

That torture is sick, but I didnt' tell hannah she was sick.

 

[DallasApple]

All I said to Hannah at first is that she should be ashamed of herself, but she's not - and everyone is defending her on the fact that it was ok for her to torture bugs.

This is exactly the first thing I said to her about it:


So basically, I did the same thing you did to your nephew. I'm not wrong on this if you did the same thing.

I did say this:

That torture is sick, but I didnt' tell hannah she was sick.

Honey..

You used the words "horrendous" and 'sadistic"..

Maybe Im honing in too much on the words.But those are pretty harsh statemements and not even close to what I told my nephew.

Maybe that is why you got the reaction you did.

I personally think its not right to kill a bug for fun.But little kids do weird stuff like that sometimes ..they need to be taught and showed.Sadistc and horrendous are too strong of words.IMHO.

Love

Dallas

 

[Magic Man]

All I said to Hannah at first is that she should be ashamed of herself, but she's not - and everyone is defending her on the fact that it was ok for her to torture bugs.

This is exactly the first thing I said to her about it:


So basically, I did the same thing you did to your nephew. I'm not wrong on this if you did the same thing.

I did say this:

That torture is sick, but I didnt' tell hannah she was sick.

See my explanation of why you're wrong on this above.

 

[Buttons*]

You said before that you've killed a mosquito. So, were you wrong then, or are you wrong now? Oh, wait, I guess what you mean is that that mosquito landed on you, which would fit the description of "doing something to you first". That would be one way to rationalize it.

I've said many times that I've made mistakes for it, and that I still feel bad about mistakes I've made when it comes to killing bugs. (Mostly on accident.) But I never went out of my way to torture them - which is what Hannah did. And she fondly remembers how she enjoyed putting burning wax on them outside of her house. Good on you for sticking up for her.

Exactly. Hannah said she enjoyed doing that. Actually she didn't. She said she used to do it. She didn't say she still does it.

She may still, she never said either way. But she certainly doesn't feel bad about it. Not whatsoever.

The point is that a lot of kids do stuff like that because insects are so different from humans. Generally they grow up and stop doing it because they realize it's cruel. Regardless, though, it's not sick like doing it to a dog is because of how different the two creatures are.

So it's only not sick if you kill something that's not a pet? I think that's a bizarre rationalization.

Yeah, you're the only one who believes in personal responsibility.

Funny how I never said that

She isn't ashamed of it is what she said.

Nor is she ashamed of what she DID. That's the difference between you and her. You actually realize that as you got older, it was wrong to torture bugs for no reason. Hannah doesn't say that at all, you should let her stand up for herself if that's what she really meant. To me, she hasn't said a WORD of what you're trying to convey.

I'm not missing the point - I get the point, and I'm fine with the point - I'm just not fine with Hannah not feeling at all bad for what she did, because THAT is also the mark of someone who could do something terrible to bigger things and then to humans. I'm not saying she will, but if she doesn't feel at all bad about it, I feel sorry for anything else she encounters that isn't her Baggins. *shrug*

She also laughs at roadkill. But I bet you didn't know that.

 

[Buttons*]

Honey..

You used the words "horrendous" and 'sadistic"..

Maybe Im honing in too much on the words.But those are pretty harsh statemements and not even close to what I told my nephew.

Maybe that is why you got the reaction you did.

I personally think its not right to kill a bug for fun.But little kids do weird stuff like that sometimes ..they need to be taught and showed.Sadistc and horrendous are too strong of words.IMHO.

Love

Dallas

Is hannah a little kid? I wouldn't have said those words to a 7 year old, but hannah isn't 7, or maybe she is. If she is, I'm sorry, she's just a child and I shouldn't have been so harsh on her.

 

[Buttons*]

See my explanation of why you're wrong on this above.

I've already seen it hon no need to get cheeky just because I differ from you.

 

[Buttons*]

Why wouldn't i care?

Its all well and good to preach about how killing things is wrong and how much you love all of God's creations and what not, but could you do it?

Happened to me about 4 weeks ago, and a few months ago (i posted a thread on here about it) and was pretty damn awful actually. Mainly rabbits around the area i work. If i took one to the vet they'd simply kill it. So what would you do? Let it sit there in the middle of the road writhing in agony or kill it, and stop the suffering. Sure you'd have it on your conscience, but at least you know you stopped it from suffering as much as possible.

Well, since you do care after all:

1) I'm not Christian.
2) I don't think they're all God's creations, I just think that since we all come from the same place, and we rely on each other for life, that we should be respectful of all life.
3) If I had to end a creature's suffering, I would do it, even if I couldn't find a VET to do it humanely.
4) THIS IS NOT THE SAME as torturing animals - which is what I'm on about.

 

[Buttons*]

You can laugh about anything. Just do it. Ha ha ha ha!! I had a very good laugh over some roadkill the other day.

here you go.

 

[DallasApple]

Is hannah a little kid? I wouldn't have said those words to a 7 year old, but hannah isn't 7, or maybe she is. If she is, I'm sorry, she's just a child and I shouldn't have been so harsh on her.

No Hannah is a young adult.To my best recollection she is 19.And knowing her I dont think she would again wax a bug for fun.In fact I think now she would say "shame" if she caught a child doing that just like me..I dont know.

Maybe she will come back here and speak for her self.

Love

Dallas

 

[Buttons*]

you know, I killed a bird once on accident - and I cried about it for the rest of the day. It ran in front of my car going 60mph - there was no chance of it living. But I felt truly horrible about it. I care for life.

 

[Buttons*]

No Hannah is a young adult.To my best recollection she is 19.And knowing her I dont think she would again wax a bug for fun.In fact I think now she would say "shame" if she caught a child doing that just like me..I dont know.

Maybe she will come back here and speak for her self.

Love

Dallas

I'd like it if she did. I'd also like her to explain why she thinks roadkill is funny.

You can laugh about anything. Just do it. Ha ha ha ha!! I had a very good laugh over some roadkill the other day.

 

[DallasApple]

Quote:
Originally Posted by whereismynotecard
You can laugh about anything. Just do it. Ha ha ha ha!! I had a very good laugh over some roadkill the other day.

here you go.

I think Hannah was being sarcastic.Sure in bad taste..but who am I to talk..I dont think she would actually get a laugh off of a an amimal being killed in the road.

But then again maybe I dont know her at all.

Love

Dallas

 

[Buttons*]

I think Hannah was being sarcastic.Sure in bad taste..but who am I to talk..I dont think she would actually get a laugh off of a an amimal being killed in the road.

But then again maybe I dont know her at all.

Love

Dallas

Yeah, not what I got from it. When I confronted her on it she said she didn't care. So long as it isn't her Baggins.

 

[DallasApple]

you know, I killed a bird once on accident - and I cried about it for the rest of the day. It ran in front of my car going 60mph - there was no chance of it living. But I felt truly horrible about it. I care for life.

I know its sad..I've lucked out and never hit a squirrel or rabbit.I hit a bird once but I was only going about 15 or 20 and it really more or less flew into the grill of my car.I was just leaving home so I got out and took the bird home.Its one of the ones I put in a shoe box..It was just in shock.It stayed in the the box over night..and then I released her she flew like the wind the next day.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Yeah, not what I got from it. When I confronted her on it she said she didn't care. So long as it isn't her Baggins.

Well..maybe she is a bit synical right now..I think she is lying and does care.JMHO

Love

Dallas

 

[Magic Man]

I've said many times that I've made mistakes for it, and that I still feel bad about mistakes I've made when it comes to killing bugs. (Mostly on accident.) But I never went out of my way to torture them - which is what Hannah did. And she fondly remembers how she enjoyed putting burning wax on them outside of her house. Good on you for sticking up for her.

OK, look. This is really simple. You have killed bugs. That's the bottom line. Have you killed anything furry? Have you killed a mouse? Have you killed a dog? I'm going to assume not, but correct me if that's wrong.

So, the point is the big difference. There's a big difference between a bug and a dog. That difference is exactly why you've killed one but not the other. That difference is very important, and you're ignoring it.

And where did she "fondly remember" that? What I read from her was her stating that she had done it. She didn't say it was right or wrong. She didn't even say she enjoyed it, just that she did it.

And please stop with the "Good for you for sticking up for her" crap. It's not wanted here.

She may still, she never said either way. But she certainly doesn't feel bad about it. Not whatsoever.

How do you know? Did you ask her, or did you assume that from the fact that she's not ashamed? In fact, she even said in response to you that she felt bad once after drowning a spider in post #34.

So it's only not sick if you kill something that's not a pet? I think that's a bizarre rationalization.

This would be much easier if you'd at least try to understand what I'm saying rather than responding to what you want me to be saying. I didn't say it's like sick at all, but it's certainly not as sick when it's something extremely far removed from humans, like insects of trees or plants.

Funny how I never said that

Funny how you strongly implied it.

Nor is she ashamed of what she DID. That's the difference between you and her. You actually realize that as you got older, it was wrong to torture bugs for no reason. Hannah doesn't say that at all, you should let her stand up for herself if that's what she really meant. To me, she hasn't said a WORD of what you're trying to convey.

Look, I already explained this, and it's very simple. I'm hoping this is the last time I have to do it. She shouldn't feel ashamed. I did a lot of things when I was a kid that I would never do now, but I don't feel ashamed. I just realize that I was a kid then and I'm an adult now.

Again, she did say that she once felt bad after she drowned a spider. It's in post 34. So, essentially you just ignored it when she said "a WORD" of it to you.

I'm not missing the point - I get the point, and I'm fine with the point - I'm just not fine with Hannah not feeling at all bad for what she did, because THAT is also the mark of someone who could do something terrible to bigger things and then to humans. I'm not saying she will, but if she doesn't feel at all bad about it, I feel sorry for anything else she encounters that isn't her Baggins. *shrug*

And there's the point you're missing. It's an immensely huge leap to say that she could do something horrible to a human because of her actions towards bugs when she was a kid. First, it was when she was a kid, and as has been explained to you, many kids who grow up to be perfectly mentally healthy adults torture or kill bugs. Second, you're still ignoring the huge difference between bugs and mammals like cats and dogs and mice and such.

What you're saying is like "She could commit grand larceny because when she was a kid she stole another kid's toy". It's just not a logical connection. Whereas "She could commit grand larceny because when she was a kid, she stole her dad's car and drove it around and wrecked it".

She also laughs at roadkill. But I bet you didn't know that.

And? I can laugh at people's deaths, too, but that's just because you have to have a sense of humor about life and death most of the time. That's not an indication that she is some kind of sadist. In fact, it's entirely possible that she was just kidding. Seeing where it came from, my first reaction is that she didn't actually mean that seriously at all.

 

[Magic Man]

I've already seen it hon no need to get cheeky just because I differ from you.

I'm not getting cheeky. I'm just pointing out that I had already explained the problem with that post by you.

you know, I killed a bird once on accident - and I cried about it for the rest of the day. It ran in front of my car going 60mph - there was no chance of it living. But I felt truly horrible about it. I care for life.

Good for you. Most of us have had a similar experience. I accidentally ran over a squirrel once. It sucked and I wish it hadn't happened. That's pretty irrelevant, though, considering they were both complete accidents that we would avoid at all costs if we had any power to do so.

 

[Buttons*]

OK, look. This is really simple. You have killed bugs. That's the bottom line. Have you killed anything furry? Have you killed a mouse? Have you killed a dog? I'm going to assume not, but correct me if that's wrong.

So, the point is the big difference. There's a big difference between a bug and a dog. That difference is exactly why you've killed one but not the other. That difference is very important, and you're ignoring it.

And where did she "fondly remember" that? What I read from her was her stating that she had done it. She didn't say it was right or wrong. She didn't even say she enjoyed it, just that she did it.

And please stop with the "Good for you for sticking up for her" crap. It's not wanted here.



How do you know? Did you ask her, or did you assume that from the fact that she's not ashamed? In fact, she even said in response to you that she felt bad once after drowning a spider in post #34.



This would be much easier if you'd at least try to understand what I'm saying rather than responding to what you want me to be saying. I didn't say it's like sick at all, but it's certainly not as sick when it's something extremely far removed from humans, like insects of trees or plants.



Funny how you strongly implied it.



Look, I already explained this, and it's very simple. I'm hoping this is the last time I have to do it. She shouldn't feel ashamed. I did a lot of things when I was a kid that I would never do now, but I don't feel ashamed. I just realize that I was a kid then and I'm an adult now.

Again, she did say that she once felt bad after she drowned a spider. It's in post 34. So, essentially you just ignored it when she said "a WORD" of it to you.



And there's the point you're missing. It's an immensely huge leap to say that she could do something horrible to a human because of her actions towards bugs when she was a kid. First, it was when she was a kid, and as has been explained to you, many kids who grow up to be perfectly mentally healthy adults torture or kill bugs. Second, you're still ignoring the huge difference between bugs and mammals like cats and dogs and mice and such.

What you're saying is like "She could commit grand larceny because when she was a kid she stole another kid's toy". It's just not a logical connection. Whereas "She could commit grand larceny because when she was a kid, she stole her dad's car and drove it around and wrecked it".



And? I can laugh at people's deaths, too, but that's just because you have to have a sense of humor about life and death most of the time. That's not an indication that she is some kind of sadist. In fact, it's entirely possible that she was just kidding. Seeing where it came from, my first reaction is that she didn't actually mean that seriously at all.

The point to you is that it's not a furry animal. The point to me is that people torture things on any level - and that to me is wrong. Why can't you just agree to disagree with me on this one?

To you, there is a clear difference between a mammal and a scaly creature on the grounds that the mammals are more like humans. I'm not ignoring your point, and I get your point - you think that there's no harm if blatant torture for pets or furry animals hasn't occurred. Fair enough, that's your opinion.

It's not mine. I completely disagree because I believe in intent. I believe that if you've got no problem killing one thing, and don't feel bad for it whatsoever, you've got issues. Now, we can stand here and point at each other and say "your'e sick" "well YOU'RE sick" but it's not doing anyone any good and it's certainly not helping the dog that was set on fire. So I'm done.

My bother had no problem killing bugs as a kid, now he has no problem torturing other animals like cats or dogs. I see a connection where there is no remourse, there is no learning. Where there is mal intent, it only grows. But that's just me.