Tao Te Ching Ch1 part 1 ~ as I see it ~

[TransmutingSoul]

I do broadly agree for myself.

But I don’t know if it is entirely true for people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Also we all fail sometimes.

Yes I would agree. Nature and Nurture mould our future, the early years of our growth formulate the ideals we take on our life journey.

What we learn as children and young adults is very hard to change. I see God knows that, and when we face the day we answer for all we have done, the good we have left undone and what we have achieved in life, there is no better judge.

Education in virtues and morality is the key to a greater future.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul - What you say does not seem different from the spirit of Christianity as I understand it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul - What you say does not seem different from the spirit of Christianity as I understand it.

We can always find our oneness in Christ Cobie.

God bless, regards Tony

 

[Thea]

Can you read them [the characters] without bias?

Hi PureX,
This question tells me you have not looked into Classical Chinese.
It basically cannot be read without a “bias”. As my Chinese teacher liked to say, “You can’t read Classical if you don’t know what it says.”

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul - Thanks for the ‘like’.
In Daoism a text often comes with an oral tradition that explains how to interpret it. If this is lost, some consider the text unreadable.

Would you say a similar thing is at play regards reading the scriptures of Baha’i ?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul - Thanks for the ‘like’.
In Daoism a text often comes with an oral tradition that explains how to interpret it. If this is lost, some consider the text unreadable.

Would you say a similar thing is at play regards reading the scriptures of Baha’i ?

Thank you for the question. It is a little more detailed in the Baha'i Writings, their is a lot written on this topic.

Specific to your question is that the only interpreter's of the Word are the Messengers of God, or any one they may appoint.

So interpretation is an issue humanity has got very wrong in the past.

Here is one passage about the outward and inward meanings.

"...It is evident unto thee that the Birds of Heaven and Doves of Eternity speak a twofold language. One language, the outward language, is devoid of allusions, is unconcealed and unveiled; that it may be a guiding lamp and a beaconing light whereby wayfarers may attain the heights of holiness, and seekers may advance into the realm of eternal reunion. Such are the unveiled traditions and the evident verses already mentioned. The other language is veiled and concealed, so that whatever lieth hidden in the heart of the malevolent may be made manifest and their innermost being be disclosed. Thus hath Sadiq, son of Muhammad, spoken: "God verily will test them and sift them." This is the divine standard, this is the Touchstone of God, wherewith He proveth His servants. None apprehendeth the meaning of these utterances except them whose hearts are assured, whose souls have found favour with God, and whose minds are detached from all else but Him. In such utterances, the literal meaning, as generally understood by the people, is not what hath been intended. Thus it is recorded: "Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá'im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth." He also saith: "We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain....."

Bahá’u’lláh, Ki tab-i-Ian, pp. 254-256

Here are a few others.

Word of God | Bahá’í Quotes

So a big topic indeed.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul - That is very complex indeed with the two layers. Thanks for the information.

The quotes you gave deserve to be read in what in my faith is called ‘Lectio Divina’. Unfortunately I will not be able to do so, due to time restrictions. At this moment in time I am prioritising translating the Tao Te Ching from characters.

 

[Thea]

I find the Tao Te Ching in characters to be very different from the usual translations. There have been lots of developments over time that directed interpretation in a certain direction. I am reading the oldest available characters.

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul - Do you think your scriptures in their English translation could possibly slightly differ, even on the ‘outer layer’, from the original scriptures?

I am thinking a good translation could possibly only come from a person who is fluent in both languages and … who is also like a prophet in understanding.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul - Do you think your scriptures in their English translation could possibly differ, even on the ‘outer layer’ from the original scriptures?

I am thinking a good translation could possibly only come from a person who is fluent in both languages and … who is also like a prophet in understanding.

Translation is indeed a tricky game.

I see one always looses meaning when they can not speak and understand the original language.

In the Baha'i Faith Shoghi Effendi went to Oxford University and studied English as to aid in the translation from Arabic and Persian into English.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

… Shoghi Effendi …

Seems to me both my criteria for a good translation were met.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Seems to me both my criteria for a good translation were met.

They were indeed. Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul - I do not read the Bible, but try to receive the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did nowhere in the Bible say something like: when I am gone, write down what I said and learn from that. He said something like, when I am gone, I will sent you the Holy Spirit, who will teach you all things.

I do apologise about my ignorance, but may I ask: is there something similar to the Holy Spirit in Baha’i?

 

[PureX]

Hi PureX,
This question tells me you have not looked into Classical Chinese.
It basically cannot be read without a “bias”. As my Chinese teacher liked to say, “You can’t read Classical if you don’t know what it says.”

What it was, were pictograms, originally; that when placed in relation to each other had to be interpreted as a kind of mini-story. So there really is no "wrong way". It wasn;t intended to be precise as written texts are today. That's why I referred to the I-Ching as a good reference.

And I'm not interested in "classical Chinese" any more than I'm interested in ancient Hebrew. What I'm interested in is what these traditions can lend to a modern philosophical conceptualization of our current experience of existence.

 

[Thea]

What it was, were pictograms, originally; that when placed in relation to each other had to be interpreted as a kind of mini-story. So there really is no "wrong way". It wasn;t intended to be precise as written texts are today. That's why I referred to the I-Ching as a good reference.

This bit is incorrect. See Brian Van Norden’s grammar book intro.

 

[Thea]

And I'm not interested in "classical Chinese" any more than I'm interested in ancient Hebrew. What I'm interested in is what these traditions can lend to a modern philosophical conceptualization of our current experience of existence.

This bit I totally agree with.

It’s just my hobby, Classical Chinese, so I sometimes go off topic.

No offence intended. Have a nice day.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul - I do not read the Bible, but try to receive the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did nowhere in the Bible say something like: when I am gone, write down what I said and learn from that. He said something like, when I am gone, I will sent you the Holy Spirit, who will teach you all things.

I do apologise about my ignorance, but may I ask: is there something similar to the Holy Spirit in Baha’i?

The Baha'i Writings tell us that all the Holy Writings point us to the same spiritual truths. So the following concept is found in all God given Faiths.

As humans, we do not receive the Holy Spirit direct from God. We can only receive it to the degree we embrace the source of that light, who are the Messengers. It is they that are born of the Holy Spirit.

That is why Jesus, as 'Christ', annointed of the Holy Spirit said we need to be born again. We need to be born from the flesh into the Spirit, which is acceptance of Jesus as a Messenger of God. The Messengers are all we can know of God.

As they are the source of the Light and life, all the good we can do is as a result of that light, but only to the extent we polish the mirrors of our own hearts to reflect those virtues and morals given of Jesus Christ and all the Messengers.

Thank you for the question, stay well, stay happy Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

@TransmutingSoul Thank you for your reply. Food for thought!

 

[Thea]

Hi @syo - Thanks for liking my OP, much appreciated.

 

[syo]

Hi @syo - Thanks for liking my OP, much appreciated.

Your OP speaks the truth.