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Tao Te Ching Ch1 part 1 ~ as I see it ~
- Thread starter Thea
- Start date
@shunyadragon - Seeing you expertise, I would love to hear your opinion on my opening post, if you would.
For me, as a Christian, it is God that provides us with morality. But what I like about part 1 of the poem is that we share the need for The Deity that provides us with morality.
It’s my interpretation, ~ as I see it ~
Tao Te Ching Ch 1 part 1:
As for the belief system that I can speak about;
it considers the customary belief system to be wrong.
道 可 道 也 dao4 ke3 dao4 ye3
< doctrine | can | speak | (GP, 也⋯也) as for >
非 恆 道 也 fei1 heng2 dao4 ye3
< consider wrong | normal | doctrine | (GP) >
As for the moral code that I can speak about;
it considers the customary moral code to be wrong.
名 可 名 也 ming2 ke3 ming2 ye3
< moral | can | denominate | (GP, 也⋯也) as for >
非 恆 名 也 fei1 heng2 ming2 ye3
< consider wrong | normal | moral | (GP) >
The physical world in itself
has no morality;
无 名 wu2 ming2
< lack | moral >
萬 物 之 始 也 wan4 wu4 zhi1 shi3 ye3
< myriad | things in the physical world | its | origin | (GP) >
it’s the Mother of mankind [Dao]
that provides us with morality.
有 名 you3 ming2
< provides with/has/is | moral >
萬物 之 母 也 wan4wu4 zhi1 mu3 ye3
< ten thousand wight | its | mother [ch25 名unknown, 曰Dao] | (GP) >
The only problem above is the transliteration pf 'Mother' in
it’s the Mother of mankind [Dao]
that provides us with morality.
All religions describe a 'Source' some call God(s)and in Daoism, it is the 'Dao..' All religions have words and concepts for God or Gods that are constrained by the culture and time of origin of the scriptures. and cannot define nor limit the Omnipotent, All-powerful All=knowing Source; of all existence. I believe this is a problem of the Abrahamic religions like Judaism, and Christianity.
As a Baha'i, I believe in the universal 'Source' that cannot be defined nor limited to the claim of any one religion or division thereof.
All religions including the most ancient scripture like the ancient Gilgamesh epic contribute to the moral philosophy and it evolves and matures over time. For example, Ancient scripture like the Bible allows slavery, but the Baha'i scripture today forbids any versions of slavery.
We all can agree that the 'Source' called the Dao or God are three letter words, maybe four or more in other languages.
@shunyadragon - Thank you very much for replying, much appreciated.
Especially your comment re 母 , I will think about it deeply.
Further note: I prefer the word 'Source; in the following translation:
it’s the 'Source' of mankind [Dao]
that provides us with morality.
Mother here is likely symbolic of being the 'Source.' The nature of the Tao is neither male nor female and is only known as a reflection of the attributes of our existence and humanity including morality, which in and of themselves not the Dao.
There are many characters for ‘source’, I think it is significant that Laozi chose 母 , the Mother.
Daoism has a female ‘Source’, Dao. Christianity has a male ‘Source’, God.
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The use of 'Mother is more symbolic here as the 'Source,' and not the 'Source' is female because the nature of the 'Source' in Taoism is unknown to human speculation;
Though in Chinese Buddhism the Divinity Guanyin is the female Divinity of compassion also respected in Taoism. Originally a Hindu male or gender-neutral Divinity became a female Divinity of compassion in China.
And so it is too for the ‘Father’ in Christianity, God is ‘spirit’ and a ‘mystery’.
The different choices of metaphor (Daoism ‘Mother’; Christianity ‘Father’) shows Daoism and Christianity to be very different belief systems.
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I disagree that from the fallible human perspective the 'Source' some call God(s) can be defined from any one religious perspective from another. What humans perceive are 'metaphors' of attributes of God such as Mother or Father and not the infinite and eternal 'Source.'
The use of 'Mother' in Taoism is only describing one attribute of the 'Source.' In Taoism and the Baha'i Faith, the 'Source' is unknowable and undefinable from the human perspective.
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No more significant that the infinite attributes of the 'Source' and our physical existence including the Mother all on balance. The symbol of Yin and Yang in Chinese philosophy and Taoism is the Yang male (Father) and the female (Mother) is the Yin in balance in our existence.
Yin and yang - Wikipedia
The Two Aspects of Taiji, also known as the yin-yang symbol;
yin-dark on the right and yang-light on the left.
In Chinese cosmology, the universe creates itself out of a primary chaos of material energy, organized into the cycles of yin and yang and formed into objects and lives. Yin is the receptive and yang the active principle, seen in all forms of change and difference such as the annual cycle (winter and summer), the landscape (north-facing shade and south-facing brightness), sexual coupling (female and male), the formation of both men and women as characters and sociopolitical history (disorder and order).
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No more significant that the infinite attributes of the 'Source' and our physical existence including the Mother all on balance. The symbol of Yin and Yang in Chinese philosophy and Taoism is the Yang male (Father) and the female (Mother) is the Yin in balance in our existence.
Yin and yang - Wikipedia
The Two Aspects of Taiji, also known as the yin-yang symbol;
yin-dark on the right and yang-light on the left.
In Chinese cosmology, the universe creates itself out of a primary chaos of material energy, organized into the cycles of yin and yang and formed into objects and lives. Yin is the receptive and yang the active principle, seen in all forms of change and difference such as the annual cycle (winter and summer), the landscape (north-facing shade and south-facing brightness), sexual coupling (female and male), the formation of both men and women as characters and sociopolitical history (disorder and order).
Your description of Daoism shows it to be an entirely different belief system to Christianity.
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From the fallible human perspective, differences reflect the culture and time the scripture was revealed. There are indeed differences between religions and within religions like the conflicting views of God between divisions of Christianity.
The Bible describes an ancient very anthropomorphic God, and many Christians do not accept that view today. The God of the Old Testament is described differently from the God of the New Testament.
Do you consider the differences from your perspective to define God in terms of the differences you see? Could you define God that specifically? Considering the hundreds of thousands of years of human history around the globe is it reasonable to assume God only reveal God's Revelation to only on tribal people in the history of humanity? Considering this problem the view that God cannot be specifically described and defined from any one human cultural perspective.
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Are you saying that different fallible human descriptions cannot refer to the same God?
I said that Daoism and Christianity are different belief systems. Daoism worships the ‘Mother’, and Christianity the ‘Father’.
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PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Many Chinese Bibles translate Logos (John 1) as Tao. There is some overlap.
Thanks for the info.
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The character 道 (Tao) is not necessarily related to Daoism. ‘Tao’ is a conceptual term used by all schools of thought (Tao, the Way, as image suggesting how things actually exist).
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