Taken me a lifetime to believe as I do and I still have questions

[Tinkerpeach]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? While god may be in the house, most prayers and worship services praise the good news of Jesus from the new testament. During my days at church I felt praying to Jesus was a waste of time there praying to god made better sense to me.

People repeat word for word scripture from the bible if it say pray this in my name and god will hear you. At the end prayer it is said, "in Jesus name" because the bible told me so.

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

Church and religions are in the business of providing godly services, prayer, support, worship and other activities. These things cost money so tithing is made by attendees and supporters to ensure the longevity and prosperity of the church and religion.

Church leaders are ordinary men and women. They are not any different than you or me, so they do not deserve to be set on a pedestal, even though they may consider themselves better, holier etc.

It doesn't matter which one you pray to, it's not going to change the results of your prayer. What one of them hears so does the other.

It's a preference.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said:
praying to Jesus was a waste of time

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

1Cor 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

And from this site: 1 Corinthians 1:2 Commentaries: To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: I get the following commentary on the verse.

I. First, it gives us a glimpse into the worship of the primitive Church.

To ‘call on the name of the Lord’ is an expression that comes straight out of the Old Testament. It means there distinctly adoration and invocation, and it means precisely these things when it is referred to Jesus Christ.

We find in the Acts of the Apostles that the very first sermon that was preached at Pentecost by Peter all turns upon this phrase. He quotes the Old Testament saying, ‘Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved,’ and then goes on to prove that ‘the Lord,’ the ‘calling on whose Name’ is salvation, is Jesus Christ; and winds up with ‘Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.’

Again we find that Ananias of Damascus, when Jesus Christ appeared to him and told him to go to Paul and lay his hands upon him, shrank from the perilous task because Paul had been sent to ‘bind them that call upon the name of the Lord,’ and to persecute them. We find the same phrase recurring in other connections, so that, on the whole, we may take the expression as a recognised designation of Christians.

This was their characteristic, that they prayed to Jesus Christ. The very first word, so far as we know, that Paul ever heard from a Christian was, ‘Lord Jesus! receive my spirit.’ He heard that cry of calm faith which, when he heard it, would sound to him as horrible blasphemy from Stephen’s dying lips. How little he dreamed that he himself was soon to cry to the same Jesus, ‘Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?’ and was in after-days to beseech Him thrice for deliverance, and to be answered by sufficient grace. How little he dreamed that, when his own martyrdom was near, he too would look to Jesus as Lord and righteous Judge, from whose hands all who loved His appearing should receive their crown! Nor only Paul directs desires and adoration to Jesus as Lord; the last words of Scripture are a cry to Him as Lord to come quickly, and an invocation of His ‘grace’ on all believing souls.

Prayer to Christ from the very beginning of the Christian Church was, then, the characteristic of believers, and He to whom they prayed, thus, from the beginning, was recognised by them as being a Divine Person, God manifest in the flesh.

The object of their worship, then, was known by the people among whom they lived. Singing hymns to Christus as a god is nearly all that the Roman proconsul in his well-known letter could find to tell his master of their worship. They were the worshippers-not merely the disciples-of one Christ. That was their peculiar distinction. Among the worshippers of the false gods they stood erect; before Him, and Him only, they bowed. In Corinth there was the polluted worship of Aphrodite and of Zeus. These men called not on the name of these lustful and stained deities, but on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And everybody knew whom they worshipped, and understood whose men they were. Is that true about us? Do we Christian men so habitually cultivate the remembrance of Jesus Christ, and are we so continually in the habit of invoking His aid, and of contemplating His blessed perfections and sufficiency, that every one who knew us would recognise us as meant by those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

If this be the proper designation of Christian people, alas! alas! for so many of the professing Christians of this day, whom neither bystanders nor themselves would think of as included in such a name!

Further, the connection here shows that the divine worship of Christ was universal among the churches. There was no ‘place’ where it was not practised, no community calling itself a church to whom He was not the Lord to be invoked and adored. This witness to the early and universal recognition in the Christian communities of the divinity of our Lord is borne by an undisputedly genuine epistle of Paul’s. Etc Etc

Rev 22: 20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Rev 22:20 is praying to Jesus to come back.

There is nothing from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah in one's post, why don't you follow him?
Right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am at a place where I find fault with Christianity because it does not provide tangible proof for which the entire foundation of Christianity is faith alone.

Sola fide, or "faith alone", is a Protestant doctrine. Most Christians in the world do not accept it, such as Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox. These Christians would say that a person's ongoing salvation, their journey of faith through life, necessarily includes refraining from sin and doing good works.

 

[Ebionite]

1. Eyewitness accounts are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. Someone telling you what they heard Jesus say will NEVER be as accurate as Jesus telling us, via writing.

"he shall testify of me"

John 15​
23	He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24	If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25	But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26	But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psalms 51:11

Psalms 35​
19	Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: [neither] let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

Psalms 69​
4	They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away.

Psalms 109​
3	They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

 

[Brian2]

paarsurrey said:
praying to Jesus was a waste of time

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.


There is nothing from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah in one's post, why don't you follow him?
Right?

Regards

Jesus also wanted His disciples to pray to Him.
John 14:13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

 

[Audie]

Jesus also wanted His disciples to pray to Him.
John 14:13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

Anything?

 

[Brian2]

Anything?

That's what it says, but I would say that there would be conditions on that "anything" which are in line with other things said about prayer in other places. Eg. things in like with the will of God.

 

[Audie]

That's what it says, but I would say that there would be conditions on that "anything" which are in line with other things said about prayer in other places. Eg. things in like with the will of God.

Kind of like in the little prince.

As absolute ruler of his planet he commanded
the sun to rise and set.

But he found certain times to be most
convenient and auspicious.

 

[Brian2]

Kind of like in the little prince.

As absolute ruler of his planet he commanded
the sun to rise and set.

But he found certain times to be most
convenient and auspicious.

Ho, ho, ho.

 

[Audie]

Ho, ho, ho.

Yes. Joke is on you.

 

[paarsurrey]

Mr. Ed said:#1"praying to Jesus was a waste of time"

paarsurrey wrote:

• #3

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

• #102 addressed to our friend @Brian2 :

There is nothing from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( in first person) in one's post, why don't you follow him (the Israelite Messiah instead of following anonymous* narrators out of blind-faith and superstition)?
Right?

• #105

Jesus also wanted His disciples to pray to Him.
John 14:13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

* "The author of the book containing this chapter is anonymous,"

John 14 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why doesn't one pray to "G-d"-the-Father whom Yeshua- the truthful Israelite himself prayed to even when he was on the Cross, and thus saved his life, please??
Right?

Regards

 

[Brian2]

Mr. Ed said:#1"praying to Jesus was a waste of time"

paarsurrey wrote:

• #3

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

• #102 addressed to our friend @Brian2 :

There is nothing from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( in first person) in one's post, why don't you follow him (the Israelite Messiah instead of following anonymous* narrators out of blind-faith and superstition)?
Right?

* "The author of the book containing this chapter is anonymous,"

John 14 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why doesn't one pray to "G-d"-the-Father whom Yeshua- the truthful Israelite himself prayed to even when he was on the Cross, and thus saved his life, please??
Right?

Regards

So when you get a quote from the New Testament about what early Christians used to do, pray to Jesus, that is not a quote from Jesus and do you say it is no good.
Then I give you a quote from Jesus in the gospels and you say that the author is anonymous and so the quote from Jesus is no good. And really since all the gospels are anonymous you don't accept anything from any of them.
So when we add it all up, you don't accept anything from the New Testament, not even what you make the most noise about, the things that Jesus said.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So when you get a quote from the New Testament about what early Christians used to do, pray to Jesus, that is not a quote from Jesus and do you say it is no good.
Then I give you a quote from Jesus in the gospels and you say that the author is anonymous and so the quote from Jesus is no good. And really since all the gospels are anonymous you don't accept anything from any of them.
So when we add it all up, you don't accept anything from the New Testament, not even what you make the most noise about, the things that Jesus said.

Brain2 that's pretty accurate. The authors of the gospels, whoever they were, simply collected all the legends of Jesus that they could find. They made no effort to sort out the legends from history. They are not reliable sources for what Jesus said and did.

 

[Brian2]

Brain2 that's pretty accurate. The authors of the gospels, whoever they were, simply collected all the legends of Jesus that they could find. They made no effort to sort out the legends from history. They are not reliable sources for what Jesus said and did.

Yes and Moses did not exist and the Exodus did not happen and the Pentateuch was made up after the Babylonian Exile, and all prophecies that actually happened were written after the events.

 

[Audie]

Yes and Moses did not exist and the Exodus did not happen and the Pentateuch was made up after the Babylonian Exile, and all prophecies that actually happened were written after the events.

Too bad you are trying to be sarcastic.

 

[paarsurrey]

So when you get a quote from the New Testament about what early Christians used to do, pray to Jesus, that is not a quote from Jesus and do you say it is no good.
Then I give you a quote from Jesus in the gospels and you say that the author is anonymous and so the quote from Jesus is no good. And really since all the gospels are anonymous you don't accept anything from any of them.
So when we add it all up, you don't accept anything from the New Testament, not even what you make the most noise about, the things that Jesus said.

" since all the gospels are anonymous ", said @Brian2

Third person narratives by anonymous narrators, as one agrees to, to the utmost, are mere hearsay, right?
It is building a house on sand, right?
It can't be the house of Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, right?
Regards
_______________
“If the bible is the word of God” | akin to finding jewels in the rubble

 

[Link]

If you recognize the guides as a means to God, talking to them and seeking their help, knowing they only help and intercede by God's permission and are God's help, is praying to God, and not praying to them.

This is because prayer includes worship.

Some people conflate this, and then disconnect themselves from the intercessors and their spiritual sustenance, power, light, and help.

 

[Link]

Jesus also wanted His disciples to pray to Him.
John 14:13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

This is true, but it's not prayer. This is seeking his help and talking to him. Prayer implies to worship him, which Gospels said is only for God.

 

[Brian2]

" since all the gospels are anonymous ", said @Brian2

Third person narratives by anonymous narrators, as one agrees to, to the utmost, are mere hearsay, right?
It is building a house on sand, right?
It can't be the house of Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, right?
Regards
_______________
“If the bible is the word of God” | akin to finding jewels in the rubble

So the gospels are hearsay and not acceptable in a court of law, and even if the author wrote his name on then, that would be no guarantee of anything.
It all comes down to faith in God and in what He prophesied that the Messiah would do and who He would be.
But all that is hearsay and unacceptable in a court of law.
But having faith is not a matter of acceptability in a court of Law.

 

[Brian2]

This is true, but it's not prayer. This is seeking his help and talking to him. Prayer implies to worship him, which Gospels said is only for God.

Hello Link. It's been a while. I wondered where you had gone.
But yes, prayer implies worship and Jesus wanted His disciples to pray to Him and the very early Christians prayed to Him.