Taken me a lifetime to believe as I do and I still have questions

[Brian2]

#134
Faith is a positive thing if it is supported by reason, otherwise, it is simply a blind-faith and is akin to having no faith in other words it is building a house on sand, that can't be the house of Israelite Messiah, please, right?

Regards

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies about the Messiah.
The early church did not accept invented stories of people who did not know what happened.
It is a reasonable faith.
Believing and doing what Jesus said is building your house on rock.

 

[Audie]

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies about the Messiah.
The early church did not accept invented stories of people who did not know what happened.
It is a reasonable faith.
Believing and doing what Jesus said is building your house on rock.

You following his economic advice?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies about the Messiah.

Did he fulfill this one:

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4).

 

[Brian2]

You following his economic advice?

He was a carpenter and probably had some experience with houses and foundations.

 

[Brian2]

Did he fulfill this one:

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4).

Not yet.
Are there any others Messianic claimants that some Jews think are the real deal but who did not fulfill all the prophecies yet?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not yet.
Are there any others Messianic claimants that some Jews think are the real deal but who did not fulfill all the prophecies yet?

Right. He did not fulfill that one. No one has. So that means the messiah has not yet come.

 

[meshak2]

If you have the capacity to be on topic, try it.
" so sad" is no responce at all.
I pointed out that accurate transcripts from decades later
isn't going to happen.

But if you have a need to think it did, that's hardly my loss

suite yourself.

 

[Audie]

He was a carpenter and probably had some experience with houses and foundations.

I...guess you didn't read his economic advice.

Shouldnt you read it and follow it? Which you ceretainly are not doing.

 

[Brian2]

I...guess you didn't read his economic advice.

Shouldnt you read it and follow it? Which you ceretainly are not doing.

If I would be perfect I would sell everything I have and give the money to the poor and follow Jesus.
This was said to someone who said he had obey all the commandments from birth. I'm still working on obeying the commandments.

 

[Brian2]

Right. He did not fulfill that one. No one has. So that means the messiah has not yet come.

Or that the Messiah has come and is coming back.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Or that the Messiah has come and is coming back.

It doesn't work that way. He had his chance. He didn't do it. Now he's gone.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Good post!

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

1 John 2:1,2…
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

IOW, we try and do the best we can.

You mentioned tithing… you know that was the Mosaic Law, which Christians are under no obligation to follow?
No one should feel compelled to give. God wants “cheerful “ giving.(2 Corinthians 9:7) I always appreciated that at our Kingdom Halls…. no collection plate is ever passed.

 

[Audie]

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies about the Messiah.
The early church did not accept invented stories of people who did not know what happened.
It is a reasonable faith.
Believing and doing what Jesus said is building your house on rock.

" if I would be perfect" ( from another post)

Perfect?
But never mind.
Nobody even tries. Let alone follow all
the other bad advice in the bible.

If btw it were demonstrable that the church
didn't accept made up stories ( like flood Exodus
Samson,Jonah etc)
Or that prophecy was fulfilled. I'd be all in with
this Christianity stuff.

You aren't even talking reasonable faith, those would be proof.
If true.

 

[Audie]

Good post!


1 John 2:1,2…
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

IOW, we try and do the best we can.

You mentioned tithing… you know that was the Mosaic Law, which Christians are under no obligation to follow?
No one should feel compelled to give. God wants “cheerful “ giving.(2 Corinthians 9:7) I always appreciated that at our Kingdom Halls…. no collection plate is ever passed.

Ha. I can beat that.

I'm under no obligation to follow any
such so- called laws.

 

[Brian2]

" if I would be perfect" ( from another post)

Perfect?
But never mind.
Nobody even tries. Let alone follow all
the other bad advice in the bible.

If btw it were demonstrable that the church
didn't accept made up stories ( like flood Exodus
Samson,Jonah etc)
Or that prophecy was fulfilled. I'd be all in with
this Christianity stuff.

You aren't even talking reasonable faith, those would be proof.
If true.

The Church is full of people with a variety of view on the flood, Exodus, Samson, Jonah etc and even prophecy fulfilment. We don't have to believe all the Bible to be a Christian.
But it is a religious faith and so belief without proof seems to be the way it is done.

 

[Brian2]

It doesn't work that way. He had his chance. He didn't do it. Now he's gone.

Who says it doesn't work that way? People who do not believe that God sent Jesus.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Who says it doesn't work that way? People who do not believe that God sent Jesus.

Or people who don't believe in reincarnation.

 

[Brian2]

Or people who don't believe in reincarnation.

The resurrection of Jesus is not reincarnation.
He died and came back to life and is still alive with an immortal body.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The resurrection of Jesus is not reincarnation.
He died and came back to life and is still alive with an immortal body.

So if he's already alive, why discussion about his return?

What does an "immortal body" look like?

 

[Mr. Ed]

I don't believe in Christianity, Jesus or the bible because they are faith-based beliefs and cannot be proven by traditional means. The bible knowing this would be an issue and to compensate for this void of tangible truth puts nicely in a message blessed be the one's who believe by faith alone.

I don't have anything against Christianity, Jesus or the bible except that they require faith and tradition to make it meaningful and persuasive. I'll say this, independent thinkers are not usually followers in a crowd.