So Jesus is not God?

[Skywalker]

Oh dear, oeste, your question has been answered so many times that you no longer see it. Moreover, what you are seeking is not an answer / you are seeking to NOT get answer therefore all answers are invalid to you.

From what I read of what you wrote, you are completely at odds with yourself.

At one point Jesus is God.

At another point he is Christ?

At yet another point Christ, who you say is God, died... God died for the sins of mankind!!! But no! It was Christ... confused... you certainly are!!

But now CHRIST is greater than God.... now that is heretical - in fact, completely false!!

Oh dear, oh dear, the created being becomes, to you, oeste, greater than its creator!!!

Oeste,

• ‘Greater love hath no MAN than to die for his fellow MAN’

Yes, Oeste, you rightly class Christ as MAN... but then promote him ABOVE GOD, who created him!

God IS Love. Jesus Christ shows ‘Godliness’ by dying for MANkind. But, Oeste, ‘Godliness’ is not ‘BEING GOD’... it is ‘BEING LIKE GOD’.

Oeste, something that is like an apple is NOT an apple... otherwise it would scarce be required to say it is LIKE an apple!

So Jesus is NOT showing greater love than the God who IS LOVE. In fact, it is GOD who is showing the greater LOVE FOR HIS CREATURE... because, remember for purpose of a man dying for mankind:

• After Adam sinned and the world turned to sinfulness, God sought to DESTROY his creation... but relented saying that if a holy man, sinless and righteous, were to sacrifice his life for all mankind then He, God, would relent from the destruction of ALL MANKIND.
• So, one life for all ...
• Remember what the yearly lamb sacrifice was about...

Remember, or Know, this: It is GOD who gives life... so man dying can be resurrected... but EVEN JESUS was doubtful for a moment; you remember the scene in the garden in Gethsemane. Jesus faultered:

• ‘Father, if there could be another way... but yet, YOUR WAY, not mine’

Oeste, the REWARD for Jesus’ sacrifice was to be resurrected into an IMMORTAL BODY.. and to receive the greatest heavenly blessing of being seated NEXT TO GOD and also power and glory like as never given before.

Now, Oeste, since Jesus’ sacrifice is COMPENSATED by the grandest reward FROM THE ALMIGHTY GOD, Oeste, How do you still say that Jesus is greater than God, of that GOD REWARDS himself with what is ALREADY HIS!!!

Seems your God and your Christ are mixed up in their hierarchical order!

Oeste, has this answered your long sort after question:

• God is Spirit
• Jesus is Man
• God gives his Spirit in full to empower the sinless and holy man, Jesus, to do the Will of God (Christ: “Anointed one”. Did God amount himself?)
• But God also gives his Spirit in limited amounts to those having some sinfulness and are not completely holy, in order to accomplish limited ‘GODLINESS’ in his name (Viz: The Apostles at Pentecost)

Oeste, I’m happy to not skirt around questions you ask... perhaps you are asking the wrong persons!!

Jesus being God and being Christ are not self contradictory because Christ means that Jesus is the Messiah. Chris died for the sins of mankind because Christ is God.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus being God and being Christ are not self contradictory because Christ means that Jesus is the Messiah. Chris died for the sins of mankind because Christ is God.

[Chris died for the sins of mankind because Christ is God.]
Is there a verse that says Christ died for our sins because he's God?

 

[Skywalker]

[Chris died for the sins of mankind because Christ is God.]
Is there a verse that says Christ died for our sins because he's God?

The inquity of us all being given to a mere person wouldn't make sense because it means that a sinner can pay the price of sin.

 

[moorea944]

The inquity of us all being given to a mere person wouldn't make sense because it means that a sinner can pay the price of sin.

I never said or anyone on this board, that Jesus was a "mere" man. I think we all know that. Jesus was unique in a way that he was both the son of God and the son of man. God was his father, of course. But Mary was also his mother. Jesus had to be born of a woman for a reason, to have the same nature as us. And to conquer sin. He showed us the way.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Jesus had to die if he was going to be the perfect sacrifice. Everything for the Law, led up to Christ. The way the Levites sacrificed the animal let us to Christ, symbolically. Because without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Jesus's crucifixtion was out of love, not hate. God loves us so much he gave up his only son.

So we see that Jesus was not just a mere man, he had more help from his father and angels than any other man, ever. He had to be the son of God, without his father's help, he could have never beaten sin. And he had to be the son of man in order to inherit the same nature as us.

But.... this doesnt make him God. God never says that Jesus was the same as himself, ever...... Never says that Jesus is coequal..... The Messiah had to be born a man. And that man had to conquer sin, which he did.

 

[Skywalker]

I never said or anyone on this board, that Jesus was a "mere" man. I think we all know that. Jesus was unique in a way that he was both the son of God and the son of man. God was his father, of course. But Mary was also his mother. Jesus had to be born of a woman for a reason, to have the same nature as us. And to conquer sin. He showed us the way.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Jesus had to die if he was going to be the perfect sacrifice. Everything for the Law, led up to Christ. The way the Levites sacrificed the animal let us to Christ, symbolically. Because without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Jesus's crucifixtion was out of love, not hate. God loves us so much he gave up his only son.

So we see that Jesus was not just a mere man, he had more help from his father and angels than any other man, ever. He had to be the son of God, without his father's help, he could have never beaten sin. And he had to be the son of man in order to inherit the same nature as us.

But.... this doesnt make him God. God never says that Jesus was the same as himself, ever...... Never says that Jesus is coequal..... The Messiah had to be born a man. And that man had to conquer sin, which he did.

Jesus said that he and the Father were one. John 10:30.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus said that he and the Father were one. John 10:30.

That's correct. But your looking at it as if he was already God. So why did Jesus say that/

Jesus said that he and the Father were one. John 10:30.

That's correct. A beautiful verse. Jesus was as one mind with his father. He was insync with his father. Jesus wanted to do his father's will and not his own. And he had every right to say that he and the father are one.

Dont we say that with our own families? We we one with our husbands and wives? Dont we try to by insync with the way we act and think? So does this mean that I can create my own trinity now because me and my wife are one? Again, your making Christ God...... Doesnt scripture tell us that God is above Christ in everything? If you dont know that read 1 Cor 11v3.

 

[Skywalker]

That's correct. But your looking at it as if he was already God. So why did Jesus say that/



That's correct. A beautiful verse. Jesus was as one mind with his father. He was insync with his father. Jesus wanted to do his father's will and not his own. And he had every right to say that he and the father are one.

Dont we say that with our own families? We we one with our husbands and wives? Dont we try to by insync with the way we act and think? So does this mean that I can create my own trinity now because me and my wife are one? Again, your making Christ God...... Doesnt scripture tell us that God is above Christ in everything? If you dont know that read 1 Cor 11v3.

It would be strange if I said that me and God are one.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus being God and being Christ are not self contradictory because Christ means that Jesus is the Messiah. Chris died for the sins of mankind because Christ is God.

Hello ... Skywalker...., Earth to lost spaceman... ‘Christ’ is Greek for the Hebrew ‘Messiah’. It’s the same thing but different languages. There is no significance in Jesus being called either title in regard to what ‘Messiah’ and ‘Christ’ means.

The comparison was about Jesus being God, as Trinitarians say, and Jesus being Christ/Messiah, which is a man.. the holy Servant of God.

God is not his own servant and an angel (though a servant in spirit) is not the one who sinned and required the earthly atonement.

• !!! A group of lads go out for a celebration but end up breaking the law very seriously. The issue cannot be done away with by a simple apology - one lad needs to pay a severe penalty for the problem... No one steps forward. The case is well publicised and, eventually, a lad, not even connected to the incident, steps up and takes the can. He is told that after serving the penalty out, he will be rewarded highly - but it will be a dramatic and tortuous penalty - life threatening, even, but he goes ahead and all is accomplished. He gains the reward for his selfless sacrifice in taking away the deplorable issue that the lads caused...!!!

Skywalker, should the magistrate (judge) take the can for the lads? Cos that’s what you are saying in that you say ‘GOD DIED FOR MANKIND’.

Now, doesn’t your idea seem ridiculous... as I certainly is?

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What is the minimum age for this forum / anyone know?

 

[Skywalker]

Hello ... Skywalker...., Earth to lost spaceman... ‘Christ’ is Greek for the Hebrew ‘Messiah’. It’s the same thing but different languages. There is no significance in Jesus being called either title in regard to what ‘Messiah’ and ‘Christ’ means.

What is the minimum age for this forum / anyone know?

Christ being the Messiah is why we know He is God. His title insinuates that He is divine. Job knew that the Messiah would be his Redeemer and Mediator and Advocate.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus said that he and the Father were one. John 10:30.

One in agreement... doesn’t make them the same person.

I am one with Moorea944 in that you are talking twaddle but that doesn’t make me into Moorea944.

 

[Soapy]

Christ being the Messiah is why we know He is God. His title insinuates that He is divine. Job knew that the Messiah would be his Redeemer and Mediator and Advocate.

You are scattergunning...

 

[Soapy]

It would be strange if I said that me and God are one.

Skywalker, Jesus said “I and THE FATHER are one”
Jesus always agrees with the Father because the Father is Truth.

Skywalker, what do the following mean:

1. The Holy Spirit OF GOD
2. The Son OF GOD
3. The Father OF GOD

 

[Skywalker]

Skywalker, Jesus said “I and THE FATHER are one”
Jesus always agrees with the Father because the Father is Truth.

Skywalker, what do the following mean:

1. The Holy Spirit OF GOD
2. The Son OF GOD
3. The Father OF GOD

Jesus was saying that he had equal power with God.

 

[Skywalker]

One in agreement... doesn’t make them the same person.

I am one with Moorea944 in that you are talking twaddle but that doesn’t make me into Moorea944.

Jesus was talking about agreement he was talking about power.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus was saying that he had equal power with God.

Again, I'm still not understanding where your getting this info from...

Doesnt scripture tell us that, Jesus had stated that he couldnt do anything without the Father? In Acts 2, Peter was telling everyone that all those miracles that you see Jesus was doing, was God's miracles that God was doing "through" his son. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God or equal with him. Jesus gave his father all glory in everything that he did.

Is someone in our church telling you this stuff that your writing on this post? Im just curious.... No disrespect....

 

[Skywalker]

Again, I'm still not understanding where your getting this info from...

Doesnt scripture tell us that, Jesus had stated that he couldnt do anything without the Father? In Acts 2, Peter was telling everyone that all those miracles that you see Jesus was doing, was God's miracles that God was doing "through" his son. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God or equal with him. Jesus gave his father all glory in everything that he did.

Is someone in our church telling you this stuff that your writing on this post? Im just curious.... No disrespect....

Jesus was following the Father's will to go to the cross, not his own will. He prayed let this cup pass from me. Peter was saying in a subtle way, that Jesus is God. Jesus saying I and the Father are one was Jesus putting himself on equal status with God. I wouldn't say I and the Father are one. Jesus gave the glory to the father not himself because since Jesus was also a man, it would look boastful and strange.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus was following the Father's will to go to the cross, not his own will. He prayed let this cup pass from me. Peter was saying in a subtle way, that Jesus is God. Jesus saying I and the Father are one was Jesus putting himself on equal status with God. I wouldn't say I and the Father are one. Jesus gave the glory to the father not himself because since Jesus was also a man, it would look boastful and strange.

[Jesus was following the Father's will to go to the cross, not his own will. He prayed let this cup pass from me.]
Absolutely correct.

[Peter was saying in a subtle way, that Jesus is God.]
No, Peter is not saying that. You are. You want Peter to say that for your own doctrine.....

[Jesus saying I and the Father are one was Jesus putting himself on equal status with God.]
Again, no. Jesus never said that or even thought that. So why are you?

 

[Skywalker]

[Jesus was following the Father's will to go to the cross, not his own will. He prayed let this cup pass from me.]
Absolutely correct.

[Peter was saying in a subtle way, that Jesus is God.]
No, Peter is not saying that. You are. You want Peter to say that for your own doctrine.....

[Jesus saying I and the Father are one was Jesus putting himself on equal status with God.]
Again, no. Jesus never said that or even thought that. So why are you?

Peter said that God's power was doing miracles.

I would never say that me and God are one.

 

[moorea944]

Peter said that God's power was doing miracles.

I would never say that me and God are one.

[Peter said that God's power was doing miracles.]
Absolutely. Peter also said that God's power was working through his son. God can work with people, good or bad.

[I would never say that me and God are one.]
I think your taking that verse in a wrong direction. Would I say that I am God? Of course not. Would I say that I'm one with God on the point of ... that I want to be on the same mindset as far as that I want to do God's will and ways? Do I want a spiritual mind to do the things of righteous or not a carnal mind? Absolutely.

 

[Skywalker]

[Peter said that God's power was doing miracles.]
Absolutely. Peter also said that God's power was working through his son. God can work with people, good or bad.

[I would never say that me and God are one.]
I think your taking that verse in a wrong direction. Would I say that I am God? Of course not. Would I say that I'm one with God on the point of ... that I want to be on the same mindset as far as that I want to do God's will and ways? Do I want a spiritual mind to do the things of righteous or not a carnal mind? Absolutely.

Peter was insinuating that Jesus was God the Son.

Saying you are one with God on something or are on the same mindset as God isn't the same thing as saying you and God are one.