So Jesus is not God?

[moorea944]

Peter was insinuating that Jesus was God the Son.

Saying you are one with God on something or are on the same mindset as God isn't the same thing as saying you and God are one.

[Peter was insinuating that Jesus was God the Son.]
No he wasnt, because there is no just thing as God the son. That's not even in the bible. With all the words in scripture, why do you want to "makeup" words and put them in the bible? Why cant you just say that Jesus is the son of God....

[Saying you are one with God on something or are on the same mindset as God isn't the same thing as saying you and God are one.]
How do you know that Jesus wasnt saying that, that way?..... Why do you think that Jesus was saying he was God? He wasnt.... Jesus was saying here that he is insync with his father. Jesus knew that he wasnt God. So why do you think that?.....

 

[Skywalker]

[Peter was insinuating that Jesus was God the Son.]
No he wasnt, because there is no just thing as God the son. That's not even in the bible. With all the words in scripture, why do you want to "makeup" words and put them in the bible? Why cant you just say that Jesus is the son of God....

[Saying you are one with God on something or are on the same mindset as God isn't the same thing as saying you and God are one.]
How do you know that Jesus wasnt saying that, that way?..... Why do you think that Jesus was saying he was God? He wasnt.... Jesus was saying here that he is insync with his father. Jesus knew that he wasnt God. So why do you think that?.....

God the Son is different from a believer being a son of God or a daughter of God.

There was no contextual evidence that Jesus was talking about being in agreement with God the Father. He was talking about they were one in who they were.

 

[moorea944]

God the Son is different from a believer being a son of God or a daughter of God.

There was no contextual evidence that Jesus was talking about being in agreement with God the Father. He was talking about they were one in who they were.

But your missing my whole point... What I'm trying to say is why are you bringing in words that are not in scripture? Why? By doing that, your going down a very dangerous path my friend.....

 

[Skywalker]

But your missing my whole point... What I'm trying to say is why are you bringing in words that are not in scripture? Why? By doing that, your going down a very dangerous path my friend.....

When Peter said the son of God he meant God the Son, not children of God. God the Son is not a reference to the virgin birth because Islamic people believe Jesus was born of a virgin but they dont think Jesus was the Son of God. It's a reference to the Trinity.

 

[Soapy]

God the Son is different from a believer being a son of God or a daughter of God.

There was no contextual evidence that Jesus was talking about being in agreement with God the Father. He was talking about they were one in who they were.

Skywalker, does Jesus being one with God make Jesus God?

 

[Skywalker]

Skywalker, does Jesus being one with God make Jesus God?

It does, because I would never say that I am one with God.

 

[Soapy]

It does, because I would never say that I am one with God.

So, if Jesus is God because Jesus is one with God then you are saying that:

• Jesus is the Father because Jesus is one with the Father

Thank you. Now I absolutely know that trinity is complete fallacy.

 

[tigger2]

This means that Jesus' true followers are the Father also: John 17:22.

 

[Oeste]

Oh dear, oeste, your question has been answered so many times that you no longer see it.

I already KNOW the answer as do all the Trinitarian on this forum @Soapy. The PROBLEM is that the "Jesus ain't Godders" cannot answer it.

Oeste,

• ‘Greater love hath no MAN than to die for his fellow MAN’

Let's stop here.

The word "MAN" does not appear in the Greek text much less twice in the text:

Here are some other translations:

New International Version
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

New Living Translation
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

English Standard Version
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Berean Study Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

Berean Literal Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends.

New American Standard Bible
"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

New King James Version
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Christian Standard Bible
No one has greater love than this: to lay down his life for his friends.

Contemporary English Version
The greatest way to show love for friends is to die for them.

Good News Translation
The greatest love you can have for your friends is to give your life for them.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends.

International Standard Version
No one shows greater love than when he lays down his life for his friends.

NET Bible
No one has greater love than this--that one lays down his life for his friends.

New Heart English Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends.

A Faithful Version
No one has greater love than this: that one lay down his life for his friends.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The greatest love you can show is to give your life for your friends.

New American Standard 1977
“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

World English Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Young's Literal Translation
greater love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;​

Your reply is based on error. The word "man" may appear in your translation, but it's missing from the text. The word οὐδεὶς (oudeis)is properly defined as follows:

oudeís (from 3756 /ou "no, not" and 1520 /heís, "one") – properly, not one; no one, nothing.

3762 /oudeís ("no one, nothing at all") is a powerful negating conjunction. It rules out by definition, i.e. "shuts the door" objectively and leaves no exceptions. 3762 (oudeís) is deductive in force so it excludes every (any) example that is included within the premise (supposition).

[3762 /oudeís ("not one, none") categorically excludes, declaring as a fact that no valid example exists.]​

 

[Oeste]

So, if Jesus is God because Jesus is one with God then you are saying that:

• Jesus is the Father because Jesus is one with the Father

No, you are saying that, @Soapy, not @Skywalker.

Can you show us where @Skywalker said this?

Of course not. It's a strawman.

Thank you. Now I absolutely know that trinity is complete fallacy.

No, thank you, because we now know you know nothing about the Trinity.

The Trinity doesn't claim "Jesus is the Father" and it never has. This is your invention, and not that of Skywalker and certainly not anything gleamed from Trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Oeste]

This means that Jesus' true followers are the Father also: John 17:22.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (John 17:22)

Since "They" are not "we" in this verse, I'm not seeing how "Jesus' "true" followers are the Father also".

Also, I'm not even seeing how "may be one" became "are one" especially since the WORLD does not believe God sent Jesus.

Here are some other translations:


New International Version
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New Living Translation
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

English Standard Version
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Berean Study Bible
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Berean Literal Bible
that all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

New American Standard Bible
that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

King James Bible
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Christian Standard Bible
May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe you sent me.

Contemporary English Version
I want all of them to be one with each other, just as I am one with you and you are one with me. I also want them to be one with us. Then the people of this world will believe that you sent me.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
May they all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You. May they also be one in Us, so the WORLD may believe You sent Me.

 

[Oeste]

It does, because I would never say that I am one with God.

I wouldn't either @Skywalker!

It would mean I am now clean, that I no longer sin, and Jesus need not bother to constantly intercede on my behalf.

As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (Romans 3:10-12)

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isaiah 64:6)

Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (John 2:1)
​

 

[Soapy]

God the Son is different from a believer being a son of God or a daughter of God.

’god the son’ IS different to ‘Son of God’ simply from the evidential fact that there is no existence of such a title as ‘god the son’.
Skywalker, Bot, saying things that are true in the context of a deception is not validating your wrongful thinking..

There was no contextual evidence that Jesus was talking about being in agreement with God the Father. He was talking about they were one in who they were.

!!!...ROFL...!!!!
That was so ridiculous that only a senseless being could make that up (I mean that it sounds like a sentence generator with a serious disingenuous bias (A Lie Machine) rather than a real person!)

 

[Soapy]

This means that Jesus' true followers are the Father also: John 17:22.

Yes, tigger.

If:

• ‘I and God are one’ means ‘I am God’

then:

• ‘I and the Father are one’ also means ‘I am the Father’

No getting out of that one.

Now, imagine that there was such a verse as:

• ‘I, the Father, and the holy spirit are one’

Trinitarians would fall over themselves rushing to claim a verse that ACTUALLY claims a trinity of a God.

YET, even as Jesus ONLY claimed that He and the Father (He and ALMIGHTY GOD) were in agreement with each other Trinitarians STILL CLAIM that this PROVES A TRINITY of ALMIGHTY GOD.

So trinity math is:

• 1 + 1 = 3

Apostle Stephen saw ONLY GOD (the Father) seated on the throne AND Jesus standing next to the throne of SPIRIT OF GLORY (the Father) - and yet Trinitarians STILL CLAIM a trinity of an Almighty God in Heaven. (Viz: Trinity once again claims that 1+ 1 = 3)

The book of Revelation states clearly in verse 1:1 that [ALMIGHTY] GOD gave Jesus the testament to give to mankind - YET Trinitarians STILL CLAIM that Jesus IS that SAME [ALMIGHTY] God who gave him the testament!! (Viz: trinity claim is that God gave himself what he already had!)

Jesus said that the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD - yet Trinitarians still claim that Jesus WAS INCLUDING HIMSELF as that same ONLY GOD. (Viz: Whenever it is claimed that the Father alone did something THEN trinity must claim Jesus ALSO ... implying Jesus IS the Father (denial of course) AND YET AGAIN ONLY TWO PERSONS EQUALLING A THREESOME ONE GOD... and yet the scriptures says that Almighty God is not a god of confusion!!! Who is a god of confusion: Satan? Of course.... he won’t like that to be known though... watch for his supporters rushing to defend him, now!)

 

[Soapy]

I wouldn't either @Skywalker!

It would mean I am now clean, that I no longer sin, and Jesus need not bother to constantly intercede on my behalf.

As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (Romans 3:10-12)

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isaiah 64:6)

Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. (John 2:1)
​

And it is a good thing that you would and should not say that you are one with God... because you would certainly be claiming BY YOUR OWN ADMITTANCE that you are Almighty God. And there is only one, the Father of the lie, whose children claim they are their Father.

Oeste, where is the trinity in ‘I and the Father’ are one.

It is incredible that a PROOF is being shown (trinity claim) with a clearly defective formula (1+1=3)?

 

[Soapy]

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (John 17:22)

Since "They" are not "we" in this verse, I'm not seeing how "Jesus' "true" followers are the Father also".

Also, I'm not even seeing how "may be one" became "are one" especially since the WORLD does not believe God sent Jesus.

Here are some other translations:


New International Version
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New Living Translation
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

English Standard Version
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Berean Study Bible
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Berean Literal Bible
that all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

New American Standard Bible
that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

King James Bible
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Christian Standard Bible
May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe you sent me.

Contemporary English Version
I want all of them to be one with each other, just as I am one with you and you are one with me. I also want them to be one with us. Then the people of this world will believe that you sent me.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
May they all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You. May they also be one in Us, so the WORLD may believe You sent Me.

Oeste, do you not recognise ‘tongue-in-cheek’!!!

Tigger is ‘taking the Michael’ with your farcical claim.

Oeste, you have ‘egg on your face’!!!

 

[Soapy]

No, you are saying that, @Soapy, not @Skywalker.

Can you show us where @Skywalker said this?

Of course not. It's a strawman.



No, thank you, because we now know you know nothing about the Trinity.

The Trinity doesn't claim "Jesus is the Father" and it never has. This is your invention, and not that of Skywalker and certainly not anything gleamed from Trinitarian doctrine.

No, Oeste, the bot, skywalker, is saying that. But a bot doesn’t know what it is saying so it is not surprising that skywalker talks nonsense.

Would you DISAGREE that:

• ‘I and my [human] Father are MAN’

would mean that:

• ‘I am MAN’?

Of course not!

But since Jesus IS ‘Man born of the seed of a woman’ it is impossible to suddenly claim that Flesh is SPIRIT.

BUT you can claim that the Spirit of [a] Man AGREES with the SPIRIT of [the Almighty] GOD without claiming that MAN IS GOD.

Also, Oeste, where is the Holy Spirit [person] in this TRINITY PROOF??? None existent as all trinity ‘PROOFS’ (!!)are?

 

[Soapy]

I already KNOW the answer as do all the Trinitarian on this forum @Soapy. The PROBLEM is that the "Jesus ain't Godders" cannot answer it.





Let's stop here.

The word "MAN" does not appear in the Greek text much less twice in the text:
View attachment 46253

Here are some other translations:

New International Version
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

New Living Translation
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

English Standard Version
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Berean Study Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

Berean Literal Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends.

New American Standard Bible
"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

New King James Version
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Christian Standard Bible
No one has greater love than this: to lay down his life for his friends.

Contemporary English Version
The greatest way to show love for friends is to die for them.

Good News Translation
The greatest love you can have for your friends is to give your life for them.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends.

International Standard Version
No one shows greater love than when he lays down his life for his friends.

NET Bible
No one has greater love than this--that one lays down his life for his friends.

New Heart English Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends.

A Faithful Version
No one has greater love than this: that one lay down his life for his friends.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The greatest love you can show is to give your life for your friends.

New American Standard 1977
“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

World English Bible
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Young's Literal Translation
greater love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;​

Your reply is based on error. The word "man" may appear in your translation, but it's missing from the text. The word οὐδεὶς (oudeis)is properly defined as follows:

oudeís (from 3756 /ou "no, not" and 1520 /heís, "one") – properly, not one; no one, nothing.

3762 /oudeís ("no one, nothing at all") is a powerful negating conjunction. It rules out by definition, i.e. "shuts the door" objectively and leaves no exceptions. 3762 (oudeís) is deductive in force so it excludes every (any) example that is included within the premise (supposition).

[3762 /oudeís ("not one, none") categorically excludes, declaring as a fact that no valid example exists.]​

Oeste, Oeste, Oeste, ... WHO or WHAT could ‘No one’ mean?

There are only THREE SENTIENT ENTITIES in existence:

1. Almighty God
2. Angels
3. Humankind

Of these three, Oeste, ONLY humankind can DIE.

1. Almighty God is IMMORTAL
2. Angels are IMMORTAL
3. HUMANKIND is MORTAL

Almighty God cannot ‘lay down his life’...
Angels cannot ‘lay down their lives’...

Oeste, Oeste, Oeste, ‘Greater love has .....’

Go figure!!!

 

[Skywalker]

’god the son’ IS different to ‘Son of God’ simply from the evidential fact that there is no existence of such a title as ‘god the son’.
Skywalker, Bot, saying things that are true in the context of a deception is not validating your wrongful thinking..!!!...ROFL...!!!!
That was so ridiculous that only a senseless being could make that up (I mean that it sounds like a sentence generator with a serious disingenuous bias (A Lie Machine) rather than a real person!)

God the Son is what the son of God is referring to, because the Son of God being a reference to the virgin birth doesn't sound decently and in order.

 

[Soapy]

God the Son is what the son of God is referring to, because the Son of God being a reference to the virgin birth doesn't sound decently and in order.

Pagan worship!!
‘God the son’ HAD TO BE made up seeing that even staunch Trinitarians recognise that it is heretical to believe in ‘Son of God’ as meaning one of the trio of persons who are the farcical trinity-God person. It is used to impress on impressionable and vulnerable and disingenuous believers of trinity that there is SIN in the trinity belief so change in wording, emphasis, and titles, are required... to wit:

• Design a new God
• Make it appear like the True God
• Persuade vulnerable persons by use of disingenuous wording and mindset into this false God worship
• Develop false and even clearly error-filled arguments to cover areas found at fault
• Mislead the whole world : as prophesied in the very scriptures used to mislead...

I know you cannot answer with any credibility but can I ask you to say again:

1. Why is your Jesus-God GIVEN POWER and AUTHORITY to rule FOR ONLY A PERIOD OF TIME... A TRUE GOD rules from eternity to eternity! Who gives and, who is that POWER and AUTHORITY returned to? Why? (One comprehensive block question!)
2. Why does your Jesus-God INHERIT a minor ‘room in a mansion of rooms’ created kingdom as HIS kingdom
3. Leaving the Father to be RULER over the greater mansion kingdom of Heaven, and
4. Defranchising so-called holy-spirit-person with NO KINGDOM at all
5. If the ‘three’ (though you only ever speak of TWO!) are ALL ONE AND THE SAME ‘ONE GOD’?

Thank you!