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Slavery is ok in Bible?

Trip Bapho

Trip Bapho

Member
I am unsure how slavery can be justified. How could someone who is all love ever have condoned slavery?

Old Testament:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever."(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment."
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
(Exodus 21:20-21 NLT)

New Testament:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. "
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.”
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
This ought to be interesting if explained by the Fundamentalist types who try to tell you that 'wine' in the Bible was only 'grape juice'....
 
Trip Bapho

Trip Bapho

Member
BSM1 said:
This ought to be interesting if explained by the Fundamentalist types who try to tell you that 'wine' in the Bible was only 'grape juice'....
Click to expand...
Haha. My grandmother used to say that. Ironically she drinks wine everyday.

Plus what about the Lot story where is daughters get em drunk and take advantage of him.. Must have been some wild grapes in that sick twisted biblical erotic message.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Trip Bapho said:
I am unsure how slavery can be justified. How could someone who is all love ever have condoned slavery?

Old Testament:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever."(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment."
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
(Exodus 21:20-21 NLT)

New Testament:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. "
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.”
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Click to expand...

21st days morals and morality in the B.C. are pretty different. I mean, it's strange that believers would apply cultural laws to today. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges. Slavery was law not too long ago here in the states. Just depends on where you at. If you looked at it from their perspective.
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
"Give Cesar his due?" I had thought that under civil law, slavery was all but forbidden. That is not true.

It is still fairly widespread in Asia and Africa. ??????
 
Trip Bapho

Trip Bapho

Member
Unveiled Artist said:
21st days morals and morality in the B.C. are pretty different. I mean, it's strange that believers would apply cultural laws to today. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges. Slavery was law not too long ago here in the states. Just depends on where you at. If you looked at it from their perspective.
Click to expand...
Sure.. But god has never changed and he's the one saying its ok. Doesn't matter how humans lived.. he should always be moral.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Trip Bapho said:
I am unsure how slavery can be justified. How could someone who is all love ever have condoned slavery?

Old Testament:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever."(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment."
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
(Exodus 21:20-21 NLT)

New Testament:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. "
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.”
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Click to expand...


we’ve been down this road many times. There will be attempts at rationalization, nothing more.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I could never figure out the reasoning.

Most Christians will say God has his plans and that it always works out in the end like there's some happy ending to all of it.

But of course , as I started speculating and critiquing, I later found out that was utter BS. It's a good and prime example of the paradox of good people following essentially evil things.

Not only does the Bible support slavery, it also encourages the proliferation of racism by the way of its classification of various people and remains quite adamant in it's text and was never struck from the record as unacceptable given that Christians tout God as being good and righteous.

You won't hear anything about that in Sunday School however.
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Since scripture isn't eternal; and, the book has it's last page, how do you know god has never changed?
Click to expand...
I think the ultimate point is, if we (or some of us anyway) learned better, and a God is supposedly that much more intelligent/capable than we are (otherwise, why the hell call it "God?"), then why wasn't God all over this from the start? Banning slavery, making that part of the commands He gave humanity, etc.? Why not? Unless He is okay with it, as His book says. And then we'd have a problem. Do we (in the countries who have abolished it) adopt slavery again, because it is "right with God?" Or do we stick to our guns, realize it isn't a bad thing to be more morally capable than even God Himself, and carve our own path? I'd vote for the latter every time.
 
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A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
"Who" says?

Slavery isn't moral, yes. How does that have to do with god himself? There are many books that have immorality such as murder in a novel and abuse on a t.v. show.

So, what does this have to do with god?
Click to expand...
Based on the Christian Bible and the Christian claims that that book is inspired by God, and is his "good" word, it has A WHOLE LOT to do with God. Are you familiar with the passages of The Bible that say that if a slave owner beats his slaves to death, he is to be punished --- BUT --- if he beats the slave, and the slave lives at least a couple days BEFORE (still) DYING, then the slave owner is not to be punished because (and it LITERALLY SAYS THIS) the slave owner is already out the slave labor for those couple days, and that is "punishment enough."

God screwed up royally in inspiring that crap, wouldn't you say? Even if you don't agree - I doubt you'll find many people willing to say we should go back to using rules such as those to run our societies. Maybe a few sociopaths and psychopaths... or some unscrupulous opportunists who are looking to improve their own situation, regardless the costs to others. Luckily for us, those types don't comprise the majority of our populations.
 
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Earthling

Earthling

David Henson
Nowhere in the Bible does it have God saying, "Hmmm. Y'all need to get some slaves." God gave the earth to Adam, with a few stipulations, and everything else they did was pretty much up to them. Slavery was common back then. All God did was put up some rules to protect them.
 
Trip Bapho

Trip Bapho

Member
Earthling said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it have God saying, "Hmmm. Y'all need to get some slaves." God gave the earth to Adam, with a few stipulations, and everything else they did was pretty much up to them. Slavery was common back then. All God did was put up some rules to protect them.
Click to expand...
Oh please.. Telling slaves to honor their master no matter what is protection. He would say thou shall not have slaves.. Just like he did with murder and other things. Instead he very well might as well have said hmm go get some slaves.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
Based on the Christian Bible and the Christian claims that that book is inspired by God, and is his "good" word, it has A WHOLE LOT to do with God. Are you familiar with the passages of The Bible that say that if a slave owner beats his slaves to death, he is to be punished --- BUT --- if he beats the slave, and the slave lives at least a couple days BEFORE (still) DYING, then the slave owner is not to be punished because (and it LITERALLY SAYS THIS) the slave owner is already out the slave labor for those couple days, and THAT is "punishment enough."

God screwed up royally in inspiring that crap, wouldn't you say? Even if you don't agree - I doubt you'll find many people willing to say we should go back to using rules such as those to run our societies. Maybe a few sociopaths and psychopaths... or some unscrupulous opportunists who are looking to improve their own situation, regardless the costs to others. Luckily for us, those types don't comprise the majority of our populations.
Click to expand...

I read the bible but I never had a personal relationship with it either in a good way seeing it of love or a bad way seeing it immoral and evil and all of that. To me, that sounds like both sides personalizing the bible as if it actually spoke from god. I can take christians words for it or my own. I chose my own.

According to people who wrote about god, their view of god was immoral. I wouldn't follow a god by how they describe him in the OT. Maybe we should focus more on how they describe god. Do you think Moses and Mathew described an actual god; who is the actual god? And, by what culture and nature do they derive these immoral characteristic of this god that, in its actions, we cannot see today?

Anyway. I'm always the outsider on these topics. I never approached the bible that way. The authors of the bible did portray god as harsh and immoral. If god is loving as christians say, than by where did the authors get the idea of an immoral god; and, why don't christians see the god of the OT and not the god they envision independent of what's written in their bible.

In other words, christians believe in a god that's contrary to the god of the bible of the OT. They go off their experiences and interpretations to make god moral and loving and fit their character and needs. They see the bible as god's voice; but, god's voice doesn't scream out like the OT.

I look a bit deeper and into the intent of these things. Of course I can say god is evil and all that. But that's like talking about the evil of Maleficent in Sleeping Beauty.

Also, no need to CAPS. I can read you.
 
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