Slavery is ok in Bible?

[gnostic]

It was people who made slavery possible, and it was people who made slave illegal.

God, the Abrahamic deity never ban slavery. Neither the Bible, nor the Qur’an ban slavery.

The only reasons why slavery have been made illegal is because decided that it was time to give up such practices, as in social justice.

Religions weren’t responsible for this change in attitude.

In Saudi Arabia and Yemen, slavery still operated legally as late as the early 1960s.

It was only through diplomatic pressures from the UN, that forced the Saudi and Yemen to ban slavery in 1962.

The abolition of slavery in 1962 had nothing to do with Islam, Qur’an or Allah.

In the US, the slave trade didn’t end until 1862-63, and it had ended in France in 1794, due to the French Revolution and rise Napoleon. And like with Saudi Arabia and Yemen, Christianity, the Bible and God (and Jesus) had nothing to do with ending slavery in France and the US.

 

[Etritonakin]

I am unsure how slavery can be justified. How could someone who is all love ever have condoned slavery?

Old Testament:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever."(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment."
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
(Exodus 21:20-21 NLT)

New Testament:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. "
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.”
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

No.

Neither is war or eating animal flesh -even animal sacrifice -or the death penalty, etc., etc.

What was allowed, instructed, etc., at various times is part of an overall plan -pretty much to make goat herders into gods.
It's a huge subject -but God does "purpose" evil for ultimate good -and must deal with the way things are as he brings them to how they will be.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

This illustrates why the unbeliever objects to the Bible's condoning of slavery. It gives the imprimatur of a good and holy god to the practice, meaning that the believer feels compelled to defend the god from this egregious practice, as with conflating slavery with indentured servitude.

A person - an ancient Israelite is desperate. Poor, in debt beyond what they can possibly pay back. They sell themselves or their children, who they can't support - into slavery. You see that? They sell themselves. They get the money. Slaves were expensive. You get it? It's like a job, no, college boy, free thinker, it's like a career. THEY GET THE MONEY!

And there it is. This is you whitewashing the grossly immoral practice of slavery conflating it with indentured servitude, and pretending that the actual practice of slavery didn't occur. Of course it occurred. Why wouldn't it, especially when the culture's moral instruction comes from a book that condones slavery.

Notice that none of the unbelievers are even close to you regarding the immorality of slavery. They are able to see and emphatically affirm the egregious nature of the practice and the moral failings of whoever wrote the Bible, something the believer feels the need to do to defend what is clearly an immoral position.

And you don't need to condescendingly state that nobody is smart enough to understand you, or that you need to do some hand holding to educate others. You've made your position clear, and it has been rejected. Do you really think that you can get others to agree with you without first converting them to your faith? They lack the incentive that the believer has to sanitize the practice.

Any unbeliever can tell you that it is immoral to steal a person's freedom, to steal his labor, to steal his dignity, to steal and sell off his wife and children, and to beat the victim. The unbeliever has to try to make the practice seem less barbaric, and shift the blame from the god. Remember, with omnipotence and omniscience comes omni-responsibility.

This is slavery, not what you are deflecting to. You ignored all of this in your reply and redirected attention to voluntary commercial arrangements with fixed time limits rather than the stealing of freedom, family, labor, dignity, and at times, life or limb. That is slavery, and you are defending a Bible that condones that practice, which was my original objection to biblical scripture condoning slavery under the watchful eye of a god who never commanded against owning people.

 

[1213]

I am unsure how slavery can be justified. How could someone who is all love ever have condoned slavery?...

Bible tells also this:
The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty to them; that every man should let his man-servant, and every man his maid-servant, who is a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, go free; that none should make bondservants of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother. All the princes and all the people obeyed, who had entered into the covenant, that everyone should let his man-servant, and everyone his maid-servant, go free, that none should make bondservants of them any more; they obeyed, and let them go: but afterwards they turned, and caused the servants and the handmaids, whom they had let go free, to return, and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids. Therefore the word of Yahweh came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, saying, At the end of seven years you shall let go every man his brother who is a Hebrew, who has been sold to you, and has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you: but your fathers didn't listen to me, neither inclined their ear. You were now turned, and had done that which is right in my eyes, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbor; and you had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name: but you turned and profaned my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom you had let go free at their pleasure, to return; and you brought them into subjection, to be to you for servants and for handmaids. Therefore thus says Yahweh: you have not listened to me, to proclaim liberty, every man to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim to you a liberty, says Yahweh, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be tossed back and forth among all the kingdoms of the earth.
Jeremiah 34:8-17

I think that, and the commandment “love your neighbor as yourself” are against slavery. Or what do you think, could you keep someone as your slave if you love him?

But perhaps the word slave can have different meanings. In many cases it seems to mean servant and not slave.

Also, if we think the slavery in the OT, it is interesting to notice, they were allowed to buy, not to sell. If foreign nation is so evil that it sells own people, would it be better for people to get out from that country?

Anyway, I think people should be free, that is why I don’t think anyone should be kept as a slave and that is the reason I think people should not be forced to pay taxes, which is just a sophisticated form of slavery.

 

[Earthling]

And there it is. This is you whitewashing the grossly immoral practice of slavery conflating it with indentured servitude, and pretending that the actual practice of slavery didn't occur. Of course it occurred. Why wouldn't it, especially when the culture's moral instruction comes from a book that condones slavery.

If you are asking me personally if slavery is good, my answer I have given repeatedly. No. I've said it is abominable and it's a product of greed. That comes from what I've learned slavery is in an historical context mainly from the East India slave trade. According to the Bible that industry would have been a crime punishable by death. A simple fact. You aren't being objective in looking carefully at the differences.

Notice that none of the unbelievers are even close to you regarding the immorality of slavery. They are able to see and emphatically affirm the egregious nature of the practice and the moral failings of whoever wrote the Bible, something the believer feels the need to do to defend what is clearly an immoral position.

Again. Slavery is abominable. You can't compare slavery as we know it to the slavery in the Bible, not that that implies that the slavery in the Bible was a good thing, but nevertheless, it wasn't the same as in more recent historical context. You can keep saying slavery is bad and I'm not disagreeing with you, including that of the Bible. But your emotional position isn't very well informed.

And you don't need to condescendingly state that nobody is smart enough to understand you, or that you need to do some hand holding to educate others. You've made your position clear, and it has been rejected. Do you really think that you can get others to agree with you without first converting them to your faith? They lack the incentive that the believer has to sanitize the practice.

More emotion. No facts just emotion. Apply to the emotion and slander the faith, repeatedly ignoring my personal agreement with you. It's just stupid IMO. Guess what - slavery according to the Bible in our time, is against the law because Christians are supposed to follow the laws of the country they live in. This again stresses the importance of morality being subject to time and place. But you don't listen. What are the implications of this? Well, unless the government you reside under allows for slavery then you can't use the Bible to justify slavery. Goes right over your head because of your emotional approach.

This is slavery, not what you are deflecting to. You ignored all of this in your reply and redirected attention to voluntary commercial arrangements with fixed time limits rather than the stealing of freedom, family, labor, dignity, and at times, life or limb. That is slavery, and you are defending a Bible that condones that practice, which was my original objection to biblical scripture condoning slavery under the watchful eye of a god who never commanded against owning people.

I'll say it again. 2 types of slaves. The Hebrew, who sold themselves or their children into slavery out of desperation. They received the money for this transaction and it wasn't cheap. They would only use this if absolutely necessary. That or starve. We are talking about a period of history, at times, in which it was a practice to cook their own children to survive. Which is it going to be? Cannibalism or Slavery. I'm sure those people wouldn't give a rat's *** what you and I thought of the morality of slavery.

The other type, prisoners of war and criminals. What were their options? Unfortunately for them, it doesn't matter much. That's just the way it was. You can take up some morally superior position thousands of years later to justify your position of disbelief but it's just an emotional knee jerk response no one but you cares to hear.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Since you don't believe in god, are you (hypothetically) proving god is an idiot and immoral based on the bible? Christians don't believe god is the bible; it's just god's voice. How would you tell christians god himself is an idiot?

Would you see the bible as god's voice too in order to make that conclusion or does god stand on its own as his own immoral and idiotic character?

As to the point about proving God an idiot without using The Bible, or, let's say, without any religious text - I would ask how we might draw on any valid, inter-subjective idea of God and His attributes if we don't have some more concrete basis to rely on for those attributes (such as a holy text, or at least a body of communicated, communal stories)? I mean, let's face it... Gods do not present themselves in our shared reality. They simply don't. And if all anyone is ever doing is relaying their own, individual, personal ideas about God - then I don't give a crap. They're one person - so their version of God (if it doesn't match to or influence anyone else's) is tantamount to nothing at all. Unless they can actually demonstrate their God, that is - which none can do - usually due to the very nature and definition of "God". There are those people who call "the universe" by the name "God" - but to those people it is as easy as asking "What's wrong with the word 'universe?'" to bring their "argument" (if you can even call it that) crashing to the ground.

I admit, I can't prove that God is an idiot. I can't. And you should understand why I feel that is. I can't prove something an idiot that doesn't exist... or at least, something that works upon or in the world as if it doesn't exist. That's God. Something that may as well not exist, that acts as if it doesn't exist, that is presented as if it doesn't exist, that is equal to something that doesn't exist. If someone can show me an empty room, and then the difference between that room and a room that is, supposedly, "filled with the presence of God", then that might be something. But normally that difference just ends up being that there are a lot more people wailing like idiots and putting their faces on the ground in the "God-filled" room. Take the idiots out of the room, and there you have it... an empty room is just that... an empty room.

 

[Muffled]

I believe the Bible supports voluntary slavery and does not support involuntary slavery.

 

[Muffled]

21st days morals and morality in the B.C. are pretty different. I mean, it's strange that believers would apply cultural laws to today. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges. Slavery was law not too long ago here in the states. Just depends on where you at. If you looked at it from their perspective.

I believe it is difficult to understand what justification they were using in the south. I twas mots obviously involuntary slavery. Now the indenture on the other had was voluntary slavery and basically most of our labor contracts today are also except for the fact that workers can leave a job if they wish.

 

[Muffled]

"Give Cesar his due?" I had thought that under civil law, slavery was all but forbidden. That is not true.

It is still fairly widespread in Asia and Africa. ??????

I believe the sex slave trade is alive and well but that is involuntary slavery and is illegal in the USA.

 

[BSM1]

Haha. My grandmother used to say that. Ironically she drinks wine everyday.

Plus what about the Lot story where is daughters get em drunk and take advantage of him.. Must have been some wild grapes in that sick twisted biblical erotic message.

Plus I doubt Noah would have passed out on grape juice.

 

[InChrist]

Correct, the Bible is both proslavery and pro-polygamy.

Sad that you lack reading comprehension of a simple sentence....The Bible no more justifies slavery than it does polygamy.

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to comprehend anything you read in the OT since your mind is closed and you are blind.

But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2 Cor. 3:14 NIV

But their minds were closed, and even today that same covering hides the meaning when they read the old agreement. That covering is taken away only through Christ. 2 Cor. 3:14 NET

But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:14 NKJV

 

[Ellen Brown]

Sad that you lack reading comprehension of a simple sentence....The Bible no more justifies slavery than it does polygamy.

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to comprehend anything you read in the OT since your mind is closed and you are blind.

But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2 Cor. 3:14 NIV

But their minds were closed, and even today that same covering hides the meaning when they read the old agreement. That covering is taken away only through Christ. 2 Cor. 3:14 NET

But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:14 NKJV

I lived in a culture that practiced Polygamy for over 7 years. The relationships I saw were often painful to the wives. The general rules were that First Wife was the boss of the house. If a husband wanted more Wives, she supposedly had first right of refusal. Practically speaking, the husband often just snuck off and did as he wished. I think the original purpose of Polygamy was so that a widow would not be alone, and I wonder if the relationships were even conjugal? Of course, humans pervert everything they touch.

As to slavery, it happened in the OT, but I see no sign that God approved of it. I think it is likely that God and those with him perhaps heavily modified the genetics of pre-Homo Sapiens man and that continues to this day. So, perhaps his modifications were to make Humans more civilized? Slavery was likely an artifact of the primitive. It is very sad that slavery is still happening in many places.

 

[InChrist]

I lived in a culture that practiced Polygamy for over 7 years. The relationships I saw were often painful to the wives. The general rules were that First Wife was the boss of the house. If a husband wanted more Wives, she supposedly had first right of refusal. Practically speaking, the husband often just snuck off and did as he wished. I think the original purpose of Polygamy was so that a widow would not be alone, and I wonder if the relationships were even conjugal? Of course, humans pervert everything they touch.

As to slavery, it happened in the OT, but I see no sign that God approved of it. I think it is likely that God and those with him perhaps heavily modified the genetics of pre-Homo Sapiens man and that continues to this day. So, perhaps his modifications were to make Humans more civilized? Slavery was likely an artifact of the primitive. It is very sad that slavery is still happening in many places.

I find that the Bible narrative is blatantly transparent about human behavior, never hiding the pain, damage, and suffering of the human condition when people choose to do things apart from the wisdom and love of God. Sad, but true, humans do pervert everything and as you have pointed out it is an awful reality that slavery is still rampant.

 

[Skwim]

As to slavery, it happened in the OT, but I see no sign that God approved of it.

Then I invite you to take a look at the Bible verses I posted HERE

.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I find that the Bible narrative is blatantly transparent about human behavior, never hiding the pain, damage, and suffering of the human condition when people choose to do things apart from the wisdom and love of God. Sad, but true, humans do pervert everything and as you have pointed out it is an awful reality that slavery is still rampant.

For me, the OT is a history and not an instruction on how to live, else we would have improved since, and we have not even one little bit. Sometimes I worry that the Creator got sick of the whole thing and walked off. Hopefully he will return because we need him so much!

 

[InChrist]

For me, the OT is a history and not an instruction on how to live, else we would have improved since, and we have not even one little bit. Sometimes I worry that the Creator got sick of the whole thing and walked off. Hopefully he will return because we need him so much!

For me the OT is history, too, a historical testimony that humans make a mess of their lives. I agree we have not improved at all. I also see it as a revelation pointing to the fact that we need God to save us and I do believe He fulfilled His promise to do just that and will return.

 

[Ellen Brown]

For me the OT is history, too, a historical testimony that humans make a mess of their lives. I agree we have not improved at all. I also see it as a revelation pointing to the fact that we need God to save us and I do believe He fulfilled His promise to do just that and will return.

There are some of us that are thought to somehow represent sin that is not possible to include as forgiven, a "Bridge Too Far". We just wait for the mercy of God at the scandalization of the "washed".

 

[InChrist]

There are some of us that are thought to somehow represent sin that is not possible to include as forgiven, a "Bridge Too Far". We just wait for the mercy of God at the scandalization of the "washed".

There are some of us that are thought to somehow represent sin that is not possible to include as forgiven, a "Bridge Too Far". We just wait for the mercy of God at the scandalization of the "washed".

Who would be beyond God's forgiveness?