Signs for our times

[CG Didymus]

Hi CG,

I’m always glad to hear a friendly voice or words in this case. I’ve sort of been out of action on RF due to University and more so an eye operation. My wife and I had our cataracts removed and new ones put in. Now I know what 4k tv looks like. In the hospital I saw a lady that I thought might be my wife but wasn’t sure. I was about to go and give her a big hug and kiss. I didn’t though. So I asked the nurse “where’s my wife’ and she replied ‘ it’s that lady across from me”. Just as well because I wouldn’t want to be going around kissing strange women!

My wife and I are the only Baha’is in our tiny town but the teachings have influenced every city, hamlet and village whether Baha’is live there or not. The Faith is a means to an end - to be a catalyst in helping create a happier and just society. So to me it’s not about the number of Baha’is or activities but whether there is a good friendly spirit in the community between the various cultures, races and religions. So we try and just be accepting of all. Number is not necessarily representative of positive influence.

Just two active Baha’is can be the equivalent in activity of 50 of another community as we have duties individually, to that a priest would have in their congregation. So we visit and befriend different religions here by attending their services and functions, sit on the multi cultural committee as members, have our own Facebook site and also attend zoom meetings and have contact with the Mayor and government representatives. We study Ruhi institute books and I’m doing a course at uni on Counselling to hopefully be of better service to the community.

It’s all about humanity and how we can help get it to a better place, where things like poverty, war, hatred and prejudice are done away with, to be replaced with trust and universal co operation and maybe brotherhood. It’s up to each of us to try the best we can so that all can live in comfort and happiness not just the few.

Baha’is will never achieve this alone. The more people work for the betterment of humanity, the better things will become. There are billions of religious people in the world today but where is world peace and unity between the religions. So numbers here mean very little. Whereas, I believe, the teachings of Baha’u’llah are extremely potent bringing about things like multi cultural, interfaith and tearing down age old barriers between races, religions and nations which will continue until we are one.

A true medicine heals ills, whereas a thousand or a billion placebos do nothing, so it’s the effectiveness of the remedy, not the amount that gives true healing. And I believe that Baha’u’llah has not only properly diagnosed our illnesses, but has also prescribed the right medicine.

Well I guess it better than having cataracts on your spiritual eye. But did she recognize you?

Anyway, in a community of about 20, my two Baha'i friends were the only ones going to ecumenical religious meetings and to peace group meetings. In the 70's, very few Baha'is participated in the "mass-teaching" events. The target areas were Black, Hispanic and Native communities. When the weekend teaching event was over, everyone went back to their communities and left the few local Baha'is to handle the new people that had signed a declaration card. Naturally, with only a weekend of knowledge about the Baha'i Faith, these people didn't know all that much and many dropped out.

So getting new people to hear, and join the Baha'is Faith, is still part of the plan isn't it?

 

[Trailblazer]

So a person who is wrong could be telling everyone else they are wrong.

That is not how projection works. A person who does not want to look at himself and face his character defects projects all those defects onto other people so he will not have to look at himself. this is a largely unconscious process. So for example a person who is hateful could be telling everyone else they are hateful. If everyone else can see that the person being called hateful is not hateful that is a dead giveaway that the person calling him hateful is projecting his own hateful feelings onto that person.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So getting new people to hear, and join the Baha'is Faith, is still part of the plan isn't it?

From what I understand that never changes, teaching is part of the plans, but the focus is on spiritual empowerment in children and youth to build strong communities, true spirituality is really in our actions, not in a declaration of faith and then the words we share.

In that whole process some may wish to identify as a Baha'i, it would be their choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

but the focus is on spiritual empowerment in children and youth to build strong communities,

Communities for what? For that Baha'is? What about the rest of suffering humanity?
I know the drill... the communities are for the people who will come into the Faith, but when, and how?

Meanwhile, the old world order is crumbling, and as CG and others have noted on this forum, most people have never even heard of the Baha'i Faith, and those who have heard know barely anything about it.

"There is so much suffering, such a great and desperate need for a true remedy and the Bahá’ís should realize their sacred obligation is to deliver the Message to their fellowmen at once, and on as large a scale as possible. If they fail to do so, they are really partly responsible for prolonging the agony of humanity."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 18, 1943)

Look when that was written and look at what has (not) happened since....
As the old saying goes, something is bad at black rock.

Materialism is not the whole ball of wax. If people do not have anything "better" they are going to turn to materialism, and who is to blame for that? People cannot reject what they do not even know about.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Communities for what? For that Baha'is? What about the rest of suffering humanity?
I know the drill... the communities are for the people who will come into the Faith, but when, and how?

Meanwhile, the old world order is crumbling, and as CG and others have noted on this forum, most people have never even heard of the Baha'i Faith, and those who have heard know barely anything about it.

"There is so much suffering, such a great and desperate need for a true remedy and the Bahá’ís should realize their sacred obligation is to deliver the Message to their fellowmen at once, and on as large a scale as possible. If they fail to do so, they are really partly responsible for prolonging the agony of humanity."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 18, 1943)

Look when that was written and look at what has (not) happened since....
As the old saying goes, something is bad at black rock.

Materialism is not the whole ball of wax. If people do not have anything "better" they are going to turn to materialism, and who is to blame for that? People cannot reject what they do not even know about.

Communities that can rebuild civilization upon spiritual principles. Plain and simply it is building spiritual capacity. That capacity is built a person at a time at the grass roots level.

It was at one time important to try to find numbers, because as people say on RF constantly, but your only 5 million people.

The Message of Baha'u'llah is the elixer for the whole sickness. The Bahai Faith has never been about treating symptoms, but the Baha'i did not respond as we should have. Instead of spreading and helping build that capacity in every location around the world, many stayed in cities trying to build numbers while clinging to a materialistic lifestyle.

Personally the only person I can blame is my own self. I have to ask my own self as to what effort have I made in my Community? Have they heard and have they all been offerd the chance to participate in spiritual change!

Our hell is knowing how much we have left slip us by.

Regards Tony

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Nobody is forcing anyone to accept it. Becoming a Baha'i is strictly voluntary, and it always will be.

The New World Order or plan requires forcing.

I see nothing in those plans that say they are voluntary. So people can opt-in or out of the;

1. ■The oneness of God
   
2. ■The essential unity of religion
   
3. ■The unity of mankind
4. ■Harmony of religion and science
5. ■Independent investigation of truth
   
6. ■The need for universal compulsory education
   
7. ■The need for a universal auxiliary language
   
8. ■Obedience to government and non-involvement in partisan politics

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That is not how projection works. A person who does not want to look at himself and face his character defects projects all those defects onto other people so he will not have to look at himself. this is a largely unconscious process. So for example a person who is hateful could be telling everyone else they are hateful. If everyone else can see that the person being called hateful is not hateful that is a dead giveaway that the person calling him hateful is projecting his own hateful feelings onto that person.

You just replaced the word wrong, with hate.

Someone who is wrong can keep telling others they are wrong.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Communities for what? For that Baha'is? What about the rest of suffering humanity?
I know the drill... the communities are for the people who will come into the Faith, but when, and how?

Meanwhile, the old world order is crumbling, and as CG and others have noted on this forum, most people have never even heard of the Baha'i Faith, and those who have heard know barely anything about it.

"There is so much suffering, such a great and desperate need for a true remedy and the Bahá’ís should realize their sacred obligation is to deliver the Message to their fellowmen at once, and on as large a scale as possible. If they fail to do so, they are really partly responsible for prolonging the agony of humanity."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 18, 1943)

Look when that was written and look at what has (not) happened since....
As the old saying goes, something is bad at black rock.

Materialism is not the whole ball of wax. If people do not have anything "better" they are going to turn to materialism, and who is to blame for that? People cannot reject what they do not even know about.

And what do you see replacing it?

China and India are becoming the major economies of the world. Built off the backs of billions of low paid workers.

The Earth is facing a devastating loss of species the natural world rely upon. The devastation to the rain forest, polluted air, seas, rivers. Overpopulation and dwindling are causing many people trying to get into the Northern Hemisphere.

So what do you see replacing the old world order?

 

[Trailblazer]

Personally the only person I can blame is my own self.

I used to blame myself, but if I know I am doing all I can do, and only I know that, and of course God knows that, I am not going to blame myself, because that is not useful or fruitful. What I am responsible for is to do the best I can for the Faith and work on my own character.

Once, many years ago, Hand of the Cause Ugo Giacery told my husband that all that is expected of us is sincerity and effort, so that is what I focus on. I work on my own character and make an effort to carry then message to others.

Do you believe that what Shoghi Effendi wrote 77 years ago is now out of date just because new Plans were made by the UHJ? I have a problem with that. What happened to as large a scale as possible? There could be more Baha'is if Baha'is were not so busy within their own communities building their own communities. Personally, I think most Baha'is just don't like the rejection we invariably encounter so most of them would rather keep to themselves. I am not judging anyone, I am just pointing out what I see. As CG says, it has not always been this way. It wasn't this way back in the 70s and 80s, so what happened?

"There is so much suffering, such a great and desperate need for a true remedy and the Bahá’ís should realize their sacred obligation is to deliver the Message to their fellowmen at once, and on as large a scale as possible. If they fail to do so, they are really partly responsible for prolonging the agony of humanity."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 18, 1943)

 

[Trailblazer]

So what do you see replacing the old world order?

The new world order.

 

[Trailblazer]

Someone who is wrong can keep telling others they are wrong.

Who determines who is wrong?

 

[Trailblazer]

The New World Order or plan requires forcing.

I see nothing in those plans that say they are voluntary. So people can opt-in or out of the;

1. ■The oneness of God
   
2. ■The essential unity of religion
   
3. ■The unity of mankind
4. ■Harmony of religion and science
5. ■Independent investigation of truth
   
6. ■The need for universal compulsory education
   
7. ■The need for a universal auxiliary language
   
8. ■Obedience to government and non-involvement in partisan politics

You are making assumptions which are not based upon facts.

None of it requires forcing. That is addressed in the Writings of Shoghi Effendi.

 

[CG Didymus]

From what I understand that never changes, teaching is part of the plans, but the focus is on spiritual empowerment in children and youth to build strong communities, true spirituality is really in our actions, not in a declaration of faith and then the words we share.

In that whole process some may wish to identify as a Baha'i, it would be their choice.

Regards Tony

But kids can't become Baha'is until they turn 15 isn't it? So how do you get new Baha'is and how do you "deepen" them? That was the question 50 years ago, and I'm sure it still is. Firesides were the only thing going on for non-Baha'is to come learn about the Baha'is Faith. They never had a lot of "seekers" and sometimes none. Occasionally, there was some kind of event with a great speaker and music. Back then I saw Seals and Crofts, Bill Sears and many others. My friends took part in what was called a "nine-day deepening" institute. For several days a limited about of people, like 8 or 9, studied the Hidden Words and the Seven Valleys.

The program was stopped because those people, I guess, were getting too spiritual. Marguerite Sears said it was creating spiritual "haves and have nots". In the 80's, my Baha'is friends "deepened" on the Promise of World Peace statement. I went with them to San Francisco for a huge Peace Convention sponsored by the Baha'is. That's the last great Baha'i meeting I attended... until now of course, meeting with all of you. And in a way I mean that. I'm able to be more blunt about how I really feel. And ask questions that I'd never ask a Baha'i in person at a fireside. I'm learning way more now, then I ever did then.

 

[Ancient Soul]

That is not how projection works. A person who does not want to look at himself and face his character defects projects all those defects onto other people so he will not have to look at himself. this is a largely unconscious process. So for example a person who is hateful could be telling everyone else they are hateful. If everyone else can see that the person being called hateful is not hateful that is a dead giveaway that the person calling him hateful is projecting his own hateful feelings onto that person.

That is not how projection works. A person who does not want to look at herself and face her character defects projects all those defects onto other people so she will not have to look at herself. this is a largely unconscious process. So for example a person who is hateful could be telling everyone else they are hateful. If everyone else can see that the person being called hateful is not hateful that is a dead giveaway that the person calling him hateful is projecting his own hateful feelings onto that person.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Who determines who is wrong?

Me!

 

[Ancient Soul]

From what I understand that never changes, teaching is part of the plans, but the focus is on spiritual empowerment in children and youth to build strong communities, true spirituality is really in our actions, not in a declaration of faith and then the words we share.

In that whole process some may wish to identify as a Baha'i, it would be their choice.

Regards Tony

Ah yes, one of the biggest signs of a cult is to wreck the minds of the poor little children before they can know any better.

And as for:

"true spirituality is really in our actions"

Is just a placebo for being truly spiritual.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is not how projection works. A person who does not want to look at herself and face her character defects projects all those defects onto other people so she will not have to look at herself. this is a largely unconscious process. So for example a person who is hateful could be telling everyone else they are hateful. If everyone else can see that the person being called hateful is not hateful that is a dead giveaway that the person calling him hateful is projecting his own hateful feelings onto that person.

It could be a he or a she.

But since I did not call anyone hateful, it does not apply to me.

 

[Ancient Soul]

It could be a he or a she.

But since I did not call anyone hateful, it does not apply to me.

LOL!

 

[Trailblazer]

LOL!

What, can't find any posts where I called anyone hateful?

P.S. When I said "he" when I was taking to Paul, I was not referring to you; I was referring to anyone who might be projecting.

 

[Trailblazer]

Me!

Ego much?