Should Mormons Be Considered A Cult

[tumbleweed41]

So you are saying that Joseph Smith made statements that could be false. He did not say he thought or his opinion was that book of mormon was... He stated that it was. Now if you say that He was mistaken I would gladly accept that. Then we could go along to the other things he also was mistaken about :drool:

I wonder if Christians can dismiss the Psalms written by David...

 

[abc123kid]

So you agree then that one must repent to be saved. Repent of what? Sin? What is the definition of sin again in 1 John 3:4? How much repentance? Of all sins one has committed? Isn't repentance a work? A work of making up for bad works? Doesn't repentance involve no longer doing bad works? Therefore, faith alone is not enough, and works are necessary.

I have already answered this question. No repentance does not get you into the family. But if you want a clear conscious then repentance should come naturally. Faith in Jesus' alone gets you in the family. And even if you do not remember a sin you committed it is okay because you arent saved by repentance and repentance does not get you in or out of the family.

 

[Katzpur]

So you are saying that Joseph Smith made statements that could be false. He did not say he thought or his opinion was that book of mormon was... He stated that it was. Now if you say that He was mistaken I would gladly accept that. Then we could go along to the other things he also was mistaken about :drool:

Why don't you just look at the answer I gave in our one-on-one?

 

[abc123kid]

I wonder if Christians can dismiss the Psalms written by David...

That explains a lot buddy. Grasping for air my friend. I can do that to I wonder if Mormons dismiss anything Joseph Smith was wrong about!

 

[Shermana]

I have already answered this question. No repentance does not get you into the family. But if you want a clear conscious then repentance should come naturally. Faith in Jesus' alone gets you in the family. And even if you do not remember a sin you committed it is okay because you arent saved by repentance and repentance does not get you in or out of the family.

But you just said that in order to be saved one has to repent!!

In order to be saved one has to repent and believe.

Either you have a bad short-term memory (and long too, since this is your theology) or you have a case of flip flopping to suit your argument as needed. Maybe you don't understand your own idea of what "saved" means?

 

[McBell]

So you are saying that Joseph Smith made statements that could be false. He did not say he thought or his opinion was that book of mormon was... He stated that it was. Now if you say that He was mistaken I would gladly accept that. Then we could go along to the other things he also was mistaken about :drool:

Now you are trying desperately to put words in my mouth.
Thus providing even more evidence that you are not interested in learning, debating or discussing, but instead are merely looking to manipulate and preach.

 

[McBell]

That explains a lot buddy. Grasping for air my friend. I can do that to I wonder if Mormons dismiss anything Joseph Smith was wrong about!

How pathetic.
He is only returning that which you started dishing out.


The amount of evidence is growing exponentially.

 

[zomg]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills:

pretty much everything you have thus far claimed is Mormon belief
​

That is not a Mormon belief.
That is one mans opinion that may or may not have others who agree.
It is NOT Mormon doctrine, regardless of how badly you want it to be.

Actually, this in in lesson manuals, church publications and quoted in talks. It is doctrine.
edit- that the BOM is the most correct book

 

[tumbleweed41]

That explains a lot buddy. Grasping for air my friend. I can do that to I wonder if Mormons dismiss anything Joseph Smith was wrong about!

I guess you were not prepared to be judged.

 

[McBell]

Actually, this in in lesson manuals, church publications and quoted in talks. It is doctrine.
edit- that the BOM is the most correct book

Really?
Where?

And no, just saying it is in {insert some book or article here} does not work.
You need to state not only what work it is in but also WHERE in said work it is.

So Christian doctrine states that {insert Bible version here} is the most correct version?
Or is that perhaps merely the opinions of certain church's/individuals?

 

[Katzpur]

I wonder if Mormons dismiss anything Joseph Smith was wrong about!

We do not hold our prophets to be infallible, kid. Joseph Smith once said, "A prophet is a prophet only when acting as such." And Brigham Youn later added, "We are all liable to err and many may think that a man in my standing ought to be perfect; no such thing." In other words, not everything an LDS prophet says is to be considered revelation from God, nor was that the case in the Old Testament. Prophets (ancient and modern) are human beings who are entirely capable of being wrong. They can also have their own opinions about things, some of which they may voice from time to time.

You seem to be of the opinion that the prophets in the Bible never made any prophesies that did not come to pass. If you were to hold them to the same standard you hold Joseph Smith to, you'd have quite a few false prophets on your hands.

Clearly the free-will of men plays a role in whether or not prophecy is fulfilled exactly as stated. For example:

God told David that the men of Keilah “will deliver thee up [to Saul]” (1 Samuel 23:12). This didn't take place. Why? Because David fled from the city.

God told Ezekiel that the city of Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadrezzar and would never be rebuilt. Nebuchadrezzar did lay siege against Tyre, but was unable to take the city. God then told Ezekiel that since Nebuchadrezzar had not taken Tyre, he would be given Egypt. Again, while Nebuchadrezzar did win a battle against an Egyptian army in battle, he never conquered Egypt either.

Isaiah prophesied that the Medes would slay men, women and children and that Babylon would “be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation” (Isaiah 13:17-20). In 539 B.C., Cyrus, Babylon was taken by the Medes without bloodshed. The city became a major city of the empire and remained inhabited for hundreds of years.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Katzpur put it quite well in her one on one debate...

We do believe that there are fewer textual errors in the Book of Mormon than there are in the Bible. In other words, the translation is purer. The Book of Mormon has been translated into English just once from its original source, and we believe the translator to have been a prophet chosen by God for that purpose.

The Bible has had a much more complicated history. There is not one single solitary original biblical manuscript in existance today. The earliest manuscripts we do have are copies of copies of copies of copies. Any time a manuscript the size of the Bible is copied by hand, the potential for errors exists. The first copy may be fairly accurate, but a second copy, using the first one as the "original" is likely to have even more errors than the first. Then, of course, there are the problems which arise when anything is translated from one language into another. This would explain why there are so many different versions of the Bible today. Each group of translators was convinced that they were better qualified to translate accurately the words than were the others.

 

[zomg]

Really?
Where?

And no, just saying it is in {insert some book or article here} does not work.
You need to state not only what work it is in but also WHERE in said work it is.

So Christian doctrine states that {insert Bible version here} is the most correct version?
Or is that perhaps merely the opinions of certain church's/individuals?

Sigh. I heard it all the time since I was an active member just over two years ago, you know. I know what's doctrine. I'm busy playing Halo right now

 

[McBell]

Sigh. I heard it all the time since I was an active member just over two years ago, you know. I know what's doctrine. I'm busy playing Halo right now

So basically you expect me to take your word for it with absolutely nothing in support of your word and despite the fact that there are actual Mormons who disagree with your claim?

Pull the other one..
it has bells on it....:yes:

 

[zomg]

So basically you expect me to take your word for it with absolutely nothing in support of your word and despite the fact that there are actual Mormons who disagree with your claim?

Pull the other one..
it has bells on it....:yes:

Sure, why not?

Here's some talks in General Conference that mention it - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search

Here's some from Church Magazines - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search

Not doctrine? Yeah, right.

 

[McBell]

Sure, why not?

Here's some talks in General Conference that mention it - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search

Here's some from Church Magazines - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search

Not doctrine? Yeah, right.

Seriously?

That is the best you have to offer?

Wow.
talk about desperately talking out your backside...

 

[zomg]

Seriously?

That is the best you have to offer?

Wow.
talk about desperately talking out your backside...

Um. What were you expecting? General Conference is where church leaders speak. The Ensign is a monthly magazine put out by the LDS church. They talk about the BOM being the "most correct book".

I know what I was taught and I know what is taught. Tell me, how long were you a Mormon?

 

[McBell]

Um. What were you expecting?

I was expecting you to support your claim by providing actual Mormon Doctrines.

I now understand that that was to much to expect from you.

Since you have completely failed to support your claim, I conclude that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to Mormon Doctrine.

You can jump up and down all day and all night about how you used to was a Mormon and it still does not change the fact that you have not presented any Mormon Doctrines that support your claim.

 

[zomg]

I was expecting you to support your claim by providing actual Mormon Doctrines.

I now understand that that was to much to expect from you.

Since you have completely failed to support your claim, I conclude that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to Mormon Doctrine.

You can jump up and down all day and all night about how you used to was a Mormon and it still does not change the fact that you have not presented any Mormon Doctrines that support your claim.

I am so confused.
Someone (edit - lulz, it was you) said it wasn't doctrine that the LDS church thinks the BOM is the most correct book. I said it did and provided the proof. I guess that wasn't good enough for you

edit - or you don't like being proven wrong.

 

[McBell]

I am so confused.

No argument there.

Someone (edit - lulz, it was you) said it wasn't doctrine that the LDS church thinks the BOM is the most correct book. I said it did and provided the proof. I guess that wasn't good enough for you

Except that you did not provide any proof that it is Mormon Doctrine.
You provided that it is a popular belief amongst Mormons, but not that it is actual Mormon Doctrine.

edit - or you don't like being proven wrong.

Still waiting for you to actually prove me wrong.

Where in Mormon Doctrine is your claim?

Flyers are not Mormon Doctrine.
Speeches are not Mormon Doctrine.
Church magazines are not Mormon Doctrine.

At this point I have to wonder if you even know what 'doctrine' is....

Based on your "proof" you seem to think that anything any Mormon says is Mormon Doctrine.