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Featured Shocking claim to Macro-evolution!

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by tosca1, May 13, 2019.

  1. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Refresh your browser, and re-read my post.

    I added some extra, or read the quote below:

    Chemistry is a large field, and not everyone are qualified in biochemistry.

    And in biochemistry there are lot of sub-fields, so not every biochemists specialized in the area of Abiogenesis.

    Abiogenesis is a specialised field, Abiogenesis is not related to evolution.
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Haggis eaters tend to hate Quality.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    How to state the blindingly obvious and hide it behind mystic. I wonder if he is in the process of publishing a book are am i being cynical?.
     
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  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I'm all about the quantitiy.
     
  5. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    That Tour is affiliated with the Discovery Institute, mean he is also a supporter of the pseudoscience Intelligent Design, which means he is no better than Michael Behe, who wrote the make-believe pseudoscience Irreducible Complexity.
     
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  6. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Nope. What you've posted in one scientists personal opinion.

    But you don't need to know the origin in order to understand how something that is living diversifies over time. Abiogenesis and evolution are not necessarily connected - they are entirely distinct fields of study of very different processes.

    This is like arguing that geology is dependent on big bang cosmology, because in order to understand geological formations you need to first understand the origin of all organic matter. It's nonsense.
     
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  7. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Tour, his association with the DI is limited to his signing of their (patently dishonest and roundly discredited) Dissent from Darwinism statement. He has come out and denied being an advocate of intelligent design:

    "I have been labeled as an Intelligent Design (ID) proponent. I am not. I do not know how to use science to prove intelligent design although some others might. I am sympathetic to the arguments on the matter and I find some of them intriguing, but the scientific proof is not there, in my opinion. So I prefer to be free of that ID label."
    https://www.jmtour.com/personal-topics/evolution-creation/


    I would say he's more of an ID apologist than an ID advocate outright. He's more of an enabler.
     
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  8. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    He does not understand it? So what? Plenty of scientists don't understand fields of science in which they don't have expertise on. That is why its called expertise.
     
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  9. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    OK let's take this slowly. I said the theory of evolution does not depend on any chemistry.

    You replied suggesting that life had to start somehow. Which is obviously true, but so what?

    All the theory of evolution requires is replication of inherited traits. It does not matter whether this is done by earth biochemistry or by some exotic and unknown chemistry on Jupiter's moon Titan, involving methane as a solvent and long chains of, ooh, I don't know, silicon atoms, say.

    Any
    biochemical system that reproduces by passing on characteristics from one generation to the next can evolve by natural selection.
     
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  10. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    If the tactic is Gish, I will slow down my rate of reply and stick to the main points I want to get across. ;)
     
  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Point is they asked him to read something, and that offended him.

    Then reading ought to be very easy for him. How does he not know, and how could he not know that Evolution does not require abiogenesis. Its independent. People have always seen the similarities and the continuum of species but they didn't have an explanation for how changes might occur until Darwin discovered the Galapogos birds. Then he explained the mechanism of survival, and people began to realize he was right. After than much more evidence for evolution (not abiogenesis) appeared as more and more living species were catalogued as well as extinct ones. Lately DNA evidence is also compelling and tells the story of a family of animals that includes humans. It nevertheless is unrelated to abiogenesis. For all we know the first cells came from somewhere, and evolution doesn't say where. How does the Chemist not know? He does not know, because when he makes inquiries and is asked to read something he gets insulted. That is not a reasonable response to being given reading material, not when he is supposedly making an inquiry. I have explained the topic in a single paragraph. His ignorance is inexcusable and darkens his reputation. He has shat upon Science.
     
  12. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    That's fair enough of him. But I am then shocked to see him apparently conflate abiogenesis and evolution. That looks dishonest, coming from an educated man like him. But perhaps he has been misrepresented in some way.
     
  13. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    But what are we supposed to argue against?

    All we have is one synthetic chemist expressing personal incredulity about abiogenesis. How can we argue against personal incredulity? If he's incredulous, he's incredulous and entitled to his opinion, but he's not offering any science. He has no observations and he offers no testable theory or hypothesis.
     
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  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    IF / when you pick one super simple and obvious one,
    and stick to that, and continue to get denial of
    the "two plus two is not four" sort, (as you will)
    THEN will you see the light?
     
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Then I am next to nothing!!!! Boo hoo, you
    have ruined what (little ) life I had. Meanie.
     
  16. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Me? I saw the light a few decades ago :p. It's this benighted bloke who's got a problem.
    But'll play along for a bit until it's time to run through my music for tonight and make supper.
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Few have what it takes for quantity.
    You'll have to settle for quality.
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Oh dear now I am swelling with pride.
     
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  19. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well, for sure it is our gishmeister who needs to
    see the light, but, that aint gonna happen.
     
  20. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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