Sex Work Marches Towards Legality

[Revoltingest]

ALL those problems could be solved without the exchange of money. Some people like to have sex with lots of other people. So let them! I don't care about people having sex. I care about people being coerced to have sex when they don't otherwise want to, for money. In exactly the same way I would care about people paying homeless men to fist-fight each other for the entertainment of stupid little rich boys and their video-cams.

If 2 people want to exchange service for money,
& neither is harmed, what business is it of yours?

 

[PureX]

There's a significant difference between rape, which is
a violent assault, & sex work which is voluntary sex.
This must be recognized.
But if you equate them, then discussion will be unproductive.

The only difference is that money was traded for consent. Rape is defined by the lack of consent. And the ONLY difference between prostitution and rape is the buying of consent THAT WAS NOT AND WOULD NOT BE OTHERWISE PRESENT.

 

[PureX]

If 2 people want to exchange service for money,
& neither is harmed, what business is it of yours?

Your delusion is that harm does not exist so long as consent has been purchased.

 

[Revoltingest]

The only difference is that money was traded for consent. Rape is defined by the lack of consent. And the ONLY difference between prostitution and rape is the buying of consent THAT WAS NOT AND WOULD NOT BE OTHERWISE PRESENT.

Yup, unproductive.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your delusion....

Such a beginning always portends no answer to the question.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not watching videos...unless Homer Simpson is in them.
I'm a practical person. Are we better off with sex work being
illegal, with workers & customers rotting in prison, & cops
devoting time to catching them? Or are we better off with
regulated legal sex work. I pick the latter as the more
libertarian (& libertine) approach.

You could read the article that I linked on how decriminalization is working in New Zealand.

 

[Revoltingest]

You could read the article that I linked on how decriminalization is working in New Zealand.

I might still.
But you could summarize it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The only difference is that money was traded for consent. Rape is defined by the lack of consent. And the ONLY difference between prostitution and rape is the buying of consent THAT WAS NOT AND WOULD NOT BE OTHERWISE PRESENT.

If I was forced to work against my will that would be without consent. It is also slavery. When I work for pay that is with consent. One does not get to deny consent just because money is involved. That next "logical" step in your argument is that if a guy has to convince a girl to have sex with him that would be 'rape' since she did not immediately agree. There are many ways of getting consent. Dating, wooing, paying can be a shortcut.

The fact is that prostitution will exist regardless of your or my opinion of it. How should society deal with it is the question.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I might still.
But you could summarize it.

I did give a very important quote from it.

But let me give it a shot. It is working. Prostitution is no more prevalent than before and sex workers now have the protection of the law when they work. If they get abused in their work they can go to the police.

 

[Stevicus]

Many of the cases he moved to dismiss dated to the 1970s and 1980s, when New York waged a war against prostitution in an effort to clean up its image as a center of iniquity and vice.

It's still a center of iniquity and vice, but not because of prostitution.

 

[PureX]

If I was forced to work against my will that would be without consent. It is also slavery.

Do you honestly think slavery isn't slavery anymore just because money bought consent? See, this is what I mean when I said we Americans have lost all sense of reason and proportion when it comes to money. Once money gets involved, all morality, humanity, and common sense just flies out the window. To the point that we actually think prostitutes WANT to be sexually exploited because we're paying them! It's completely INSANE!

There are many ways of getting consent. Dating, wooing, paying can be a shortcut.

If you have to "get consent", it means that there was no consent. Only your coercion.

The fact is that prostitution will exist regardless of your or my opinion of it. How should society deal with it is the question.

So will ALL crimes. But they need to be considered crimes, and punished accordingly, anyway, for the sake of our shared humanity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you honestly think slavery isn't slavery anymore just because money bought consent? See, this is what I mean when I said we Americans have lost all sense of reason and proportion when it comes to money. Once money gets involved, all morality, humanity, and common sense just flies out the window. To the point that we actually think prostitutes WANT to be sexually exploited because we're paying them! It's completely INSANE!

Oh come on. It is an almost perfect analogy. A hysterical and distortional response is a loss.

Try again.

If you have to "get consent", it means that there was no consent. Only your coercion.

Wrong again. Oh great, stuck with an unwanted underscore. I see that you do not understand consent and coercion. Did you even go on dates? Women very rarely just throw themselves at a person.

So will ALL crimes. But they need to be considered crimes, and punished accordingly, anyway, for the sake of our shared humanity.

Why? If the punishment causes more problems than the supposed crime then it is an unjust law. Just because you do not want to give people freedom over their own bodies does not make an act immoral or illegal.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

ALL those problems could be solved without the exchange of money. Some people like to have sex with lots of other people. So let them! I don't care about people having sex. I care about people being coerced to have sex when they don't otherwise want to, for money. In exactly the same way I would care about people paying homeless men to fist-fight each other for the entertainment of stupid little rich boys and their video-cams. Paying people to physically abuse and exploit them should be a crime. And that ESPECIALLY includes sexual abuse and exploitation.

But we worship money so profoundly in this country that we can't even SEE the abuse and exploitation once the money has changed hands. It's profoundly sad, and inhumane, the level of immorality and inhumanity we have sunk to because of our insane worship of money.

That is, I'm sure, very easy for you to say.

However, my own lived experience is that when the Children's Aid dumped me on the streets of Toronto, at the ripe old age of 17 in 1965, I had no money, no experience of any kind, and little chance of finding work. And until I did find work, I had this urge to eat and sleep somewhere. Winters can be on the chilly side up here in Canada. And I paid for that with my body.

And yes, as soon as I found work, I took it. Very low-grade stuff, frankly, but you know what? I worked my way up to Vice President of Information Technology for a major financial institution.

I did not like prostituting myself, but I do not resent the fact that I did what I had to do for my own survival.

 

[Kenny]

This is good news IMO.
Manhattan to Stop Prosecuting Prostitution, Part of Nationwide Shift
Excerpted....
The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced Wednesday that it would no longer prosecute prostitution and unlicensed massage, putting the weight of one of the most high-profile law enforcement offices in the United States behind the growing movement to change the criminal justice system’s approach to sex work.

The district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., revealed the new policy as he appeared virtually in court to ask a judge to dismiss 914 open cases involving prostitution and unlicensed massage, along with 5,080 cases in which the charge was loitering for the purposes of prostitution.

The law that made the latter charge a crime, which had become known as the “walking while trans” law, was repealed by New York State in February.

Mr. Vance said that with the announcement, his office had fully shifted its approach to prostitution. Many of the cases he moved to dismiss dated to the 1970s and 1980s, when New York waged a war against prostitution in an effort to clean up its image as a center of iniquity and vice.

“Over the last decade we’ve learned from those with lived experience, and from our own experience on the ground: Criminally prosecuting prostitution does not make us safer, and too often, achieves the opposite result by further marginalizing vulnerable New Yorkers,” Mr. Vance said in a statement.

The office will continue to prosecute other crimes related to prostitution, including patronizing sex workers and sex trafficking.

Manhattan will join Baltimore, Philadelphia and other jurisdictions that have declined to prosecute sex workers. Brooklyn also does not prosecute people arrested for prostitution, but instead refers them to social services before they are compelled to appear in court — unless the district attorney’s office there is unable to reach them.

Next is to legalize sex trafficking. What happened to covid distancing?

 

[PureX]

I did not like prostituting myself, but I do not resent the fact that I did what I had to do for my own survival.

That's my point. You allowed yourself to be used and exploited for the money. NOT because you wanted to, or because you liked it, which is the idiotic delusional fantasy that all these pro-prostitution folks think is reality. Because they think money somehow erases the horrible reality of exploitation and abuse that it causes and enables.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did give a very important quote from it.

But let me give it a shot. It is working. Prostitution is no more prevalent than before and sex workers now have the protection of the law when they work. If they get abused in their work they can go to the police.

Sounds like improvement.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Next is to legalize sex trafficking. What happened to covid distancing?

Decriminalizing is a step towards fighting trafficking.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What is wrong with consensual sex?

It's commodifying it and turning it into a product to be sold, that is the problem. It's dehumanizing. Many or most sex workers are in circumstances where you can't really claim it's consensual. They don't want to be there and it's common for them to dissociate to get through it. They're just reduced to their bodies and used.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's my point. You allowed yourself to be used and exploited for the money. NOT because you wanted to, or because you liked it, which is the idiotic delusional fantasy that all these pro-prostitution folks think is reality. Because they think money somehow erases the horrible reality of exploitation and abuse that it causes and enables.

I laid sod one summer during my college years. Not because I wanted to, not because I liked it, but because of the money. You need to show that prostitution is different. It is the same sort of consent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Next is to legalize sex trafficking. What happened to covid distancing?

Of course, regulated sex work would include safe practice.
Trafficking is very different from professional sex work.
The first is slavery, the 2nd is business.
Don't go all socialist on me...claiming that business is slavery.