Pah Post #92 said:
While your disertation on the biblical word may be "spot-on", it does nothing but show how one group feels about sex before marriage. It neglects other cultures and other purposes.
How one group feels? Im talking about how God feels on this subject. That's the group that counts.
Pah Post #92 said:
Evolution and the study of natural sexuality show that marriage is not a requirement for any aspects of sex.
Who said it was a requirement for sex? You can go have sex with anything you like. Its your spirit thatll be in trouble for it afterwards (and sometimes your body as well) (and sometimes your soul depending on how things go.)
Mister_T Post #93 said:
From the above, we see that the bias is toward some egregious sexual error. Is it any wonder that this becomes the common theme given the anti-sex nature of the Conservative Christian church. However, it is vital to note the figurative meaning of idolatry from Strong's Dictionary. We must ask at what point did the word become a metaphor for idol worship.
From what I can see, it became a metaphor from the way God was speaking to them in the Old Testament. God speaks of Israel as His wife, and says that she slept with other men (meaning idolatry.)
The problem with saying that Paul intended to say idolatry is that he already mentioned that in the same sentences. With Jesus the problem is he is talking about divorce and such. This lends to an interpretation of it on the sexual side. Trust me, if the Church has wanted anything in the past its the permission of God to go hump anything that moves, willfully, and still have salvation. Come on, it was the Roman Empire. If it meant that then Paul would have explained it that way. What you have here is people not wanting it to be true. Look at the context.
Jesus speaking on divorce, not on idolatry.
Matthew 5:32 - But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for *PORNEIA*, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Matthew 19:9 - I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for *PORNEIA*, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Jesus referring to evil thoughts. He is listing physical ones, so it would make more sense in the literal interpretation.
Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, *PORNEIA*, theft, murder, adultery,
Paul mentioned things that are forbidden once each. Idolatry would not have merited a second mention in the same sentence.
Acts 15:20 - Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from *PORNEIA*, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Acts 15:29 - You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from *PORNEIA*. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts 21:25 - As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from *PORNEIA*."
Here is Porneia being used in its sexual sense. Cant even argue with this one at all. Its plain.
1 Corinthians 5:1 - It is actually reported that there is *PORNEIA* among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.
Possible reference to idolatry. However, he was speaking on letting yourself go and falling into a sin. This seems to lean way more towards the literal side than the metaphorical side.
1 Corinthians 6:13 - "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for *PORNEIA*, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
Possible reference to idolatry.
1 Corinthians 6:18 - Flee from *PORNEIA*. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins *PORNEUO* sins against his own body.
Definite reference to the sexual side. He is speaking on having your own wife. Does that mean that the wife keeps you from idolatry? No. In the Old Testament its usually the wife that leads a man into idolatry.
1 Corinthians 7:2 - But since there is so much *PORNEIA*, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
In what he is referring to they did both. They bowed down to the idols, and had sex with the women. In fact it was the women that led them into it.
1 Corinthians 10:8 - We should not commit *PORNEUO*, as some of them didand in one day twenty-three thousand of them died.
He doesnt seem to be referring to those who have gone into idolatry. He seems to be speaking of those who have indulged. Idolatry does not seem to be an indulgence. However, I guess if you want it to mean idolatry in one then thats okay.
2 Corinthians 12:21 - I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, *PORNEIA* and debauchery in which they have indulged.
He mentions idolatry in this list. He wouldnt have put it twice; once the metaphorical form, and the second time the literal. That would make no sense.
Galatians 5:19 - The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: *PORNEIA*, impurity and debauchery;
He goes on to list things that are not metaphors. One metaphor among a list of literal things? Was Paul trying to confuse everyone? No. Its literal, and can not be figurative.
Ephesians 5:3 - But among you there must not be even a hint of *PORNEIA*, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
He is saying all these are basically idolatry. Because of this there is a slim chance that it means idolatry, since he summed up the list with idolatry. It would be ridiculous for him to be using the metaphor.
Colossians 3:5 - Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: *PORNEIA*, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
From verse 4 we see that its not likely that he is referring to idolatry.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 - It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid *PORNEIA*;
Mister_T Post #93 said:
I rest my case. Sex is beautiful. I don't know why the church makes it so ugly. Maybe it's the same guilt and shame that drives us to clothe our nudity.
Sex is beautiful. Man is what makes it so ugly by taking it out of what its intended for
MARRIAGE.
Mister_T Post #93 said:
Here's another nail in the coffin.
Paul says this:
1 Corinthians 7:2 - But since there is so much *PORNEIA*, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
Now, if porneia is only for after marriage then why does Paul say that because there is so much porneia every man should have his own wife. He is obviously speaking of the people that are not married. Finding a woman wont keep them from idolatry. Finding a woman wont keep them from adultery. Finding a woman would keep them from sex outside of marriage, because at least they would have someone to share a bed with and release some of that sexual tension that this world tries to build up in every person every time the person leaves his own house.
Obviously you, or just the people you are listening to, dont want it to mean fornication. We cant interpret the Bible based on what we want. We are evil, so of course we would want to say that we can do evil and it wouldnt be evil. This, however, is wrong. We need to listen to God, not ourselves. If theres a spirit trying to lead you into thinking that this isnt evil then its not the Holy Spirit. We are told by Paul to test the spirits to see if they are from God. This spirit has proven false. Repent and move on. And don't worry about it. These days things are becoming so muttled by people that false doctrin is almost everywhere. It's crazy. Just try to be more prepared next time. Ask God to help you with that.