Salvation

[Rise]

how about.....that item you fear the most
that item you have no control over

pick and choose

So you're asking people to just pick their own idea of salvation?

I don't see how the question can be productive for discussion then. Much less conducive to a debate (as this is a "debate" forum). Everyone will give a different answer based on a different definition of what salvation means to them, in their opinion, so there's really nothing to even discuss about what the definition of salvation is and how it is achieved - much less a solid issue to debate.

 

[Thief]

…"Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
John 8:11

so often people quote scripture......and see not the scenario

now, picture yourself as the woman Jesus was speaking to
see yourself as that someone still living in that community

oh sure......a prophet spoke and your life was spared

but you would still be living among your accusers

I think.....sparing your life is not salvation
the life must be retained.....of course

but then
you must go about the living
and you are still marked

where's my hooded robe?

 

[Thief]

So you're asking people to just pick their own idea of salvation?

I don't see how the question can be productive for discussion then. Much less conducive to a debate (as this is a "debate" forum). Everyone will give a different answer based on a different definition of what salvation means to them, in their opinion, so there's really nothing to even discuss about what the definition of salvation is and how it is achieved - much less a solid issue to debate.

I didn't say this would be easy

 

[Rise]

I didn't say this would be easy

Easy or hard has nothing to do with anything I said.

The question as you've posed it doesn't make any logical sense.

It is logically impossible to have a discussion or debate about a word that you refuse to give a definition for.

You aren't asking people how they are saved if you cannot first define what you mean by that.

At best all you're doing is asking people's opinion about what they think the word "saved" means to them. But everyone could give a different answer and then no one is capable of discussing or debating the issue of salvation with each other because they all have a different definition.

If that is the only intention of your post, then it shouldn't be posted in a "debate" forum. A "discussion" forum would be more suitable. And you could make it more clear in the first post you're just asking for people's opinions about what "saved" means to them.

Debate implies using objective measurements and logic to arrive at the objective truth. But what you're asking people for is just their subjective opinion.

 

[alsome]

In Moses' story of god, there was no satan, was there? Who decided that ?

 

[Thief]

Debate implies using objective measurements and logic to arrive at the objective truth.

we debate belief

for which ....proving is not required

 

[Thief]

In Moses' story of god, there was no satan, was there? Who decided that ?

you refer to the garden event?
wherein a serpent was involved

and I say.....serpent
is a note of character
not form

 

[alsome]

OK----the "serpent", back to the scripture again. I'm not too familiar with Yiddish, what was Moses's word for "serpent" or "satan" ?

 

[Muffled]

and you think you are saved?

how was that line drawn?

I believe it is simple. It was no longer my responsibility since I had made it His and He is capable whereas I am not.

 

[Muffled]

Probably just to be reincarnated as something/someone else.

I believe even if I were reincarnated into a Hindu family I would still be a Christian. I just wouldn't find that out for a while.

 

[Muffled]

I realised that giving a **** is an option.

I believe zeal does not guarantee truth as the apostle Paul found out. However no-one ever found anything without looking for it even when it is under their noses.

 

[Muffled]

We first have to define what it is that we are getting "saved" from?
Christians use this expression but not many can actually define it.

What say you Thief?

Using an analogy that I like to apply...if you were on board the Titanic which you believed was unsinkable because the builders told you that.....and someone had removed some of the lifeboats because of this mistaken notion, how would you feel if you saw that all the lifeboats were full, and you were still standing in a crowd on the deck with water swirling around your knees?

How would you feel if there was criteria for a place on those lifeboats and you didn't meet it? Would you still want a seat? When the Titanic was sinking, it was "women and children first". Some men stoically put their wives and children on the lifeboats knowing that they would never see them again. Other men tried to sneak on and who could blame them? But what if you were discovered and asked to give up your place, knowing that you would surely die if you did? No one would ever want to be in any of those positions. Not even the women and children who were pulling away from the sinking ship.


I see the world as the Titanic.....and it is sinking, but the lifeboats are not reserved for just women and children, they are reserved for everyone who wants to qualify for a place. Its a bit like applying for citizenship in another country....you must meet the criteria or your application will be rejected.
There is a list of qualifications that must be attained if you want a place, and you know that only those who fulfill all of them will get a onboard. What will you do?

What is the criteria for salvation?

I believe I will get an expert (Jesus) to fill out the form for me.

 

[Rise]

we debate belief

for which ....proving is not required

You can't debate, by definition, without trying to prove something is true.
That's what debate is by definition.

Debate - Wikipedia


If you claim to want to have a debate, then you are required to use reasons and facts to establish your belief is true. That's called the burden of proof. The onus is on the one making the claim to prove their claim is true. If they cannot, or are unwilling to, then they don't get to claim it's true.

If you just want to state your belief without having to prove it, that's not called debate - that's called giving your opinion.

And if you recognize your opinion is just your opinion, and you aren't trying to insist it's true, then you aren't obligated to defend why your opinion is true.

It's when you start proclaiming your opinion is true that the onus is on you to justify your claim by providing reasons and evidence for why you think you can claim your opinion represents truth.

 

[Deeje]

I believe I will get an expert (Jesus) to fill out the form for me.

Sorry, but the “expert” leaves it to us to fulfill the criteria before the form is filled in. The criteria is the important thing, filling in the form is just recording what is already a fact.

What do you believe the criteria is? What makes one a “Christian”? What is Jesus looking for in us?

 

[alsome]

If god knows everything about everything, why St. Peter ? Does St. Peter have a list from god ?

 

[Thief]

You can't debate, by definition, without trying to prove something is true.
That's what debate is by definition.

Debate - Wikipedia

now find a definition for belief

 

[Thief]

If god knows everything about everything, why St. Peter ? Does St. Peter have a list from god ?

a rich man came to the Gate
he carried to bags of obvious weight

and Peter said.....Oh no
We don't allow baggage here

and the rich man said....
It's okay...I know your Boss
Go ask Him

Peter went asking and returned puzzled ...but with instruction
OKAY.....I should look in the bags
and then you get to go in

the rich man entered

an angel was nearby and overheard the talk at the Gate
saw the rich man enter...!!!!!
and then had to ask.......wtf?

and Peter said.....yeah .....I KNOW!!!!

and why would anyone bring their own paving bricks...!!!!

 

[alsome]

Where are those rocks anyway !

 

[tayla]

and you think you are saved?

how was that line drawn?

I don't think there is any need for salvation and nothing to be saved from, not in a spiritual or religious sense. I think we can be saved from the dark side of humanity to become better people.

 

[Thief]

I don't think there is any need for salvation and nothing to be saved from, not in a spiritual or religious sense. I think we can be saved from the dark side of humanity to become better people.

so....no after life for you?