Salvation in the scriptures, the born again movement

[Ben Avraham]

Lu 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

I believe that covers both oral and written possibilities.

Okay, no more question but one. If that's how you believe, why don't you believe in Jesus' words when he said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. That's also in Luke 16:29-31. If you believe what is written in Luke, there you are!

 

[Ben Avraham]

And you know what? People do not have a problem with nine of the ten commandments. It is just that tricky one about keeping the seventh day that they like to find excuses not to keep.

And would you like to know why? Because those peoples must have read Ezekiel 20:12,20 where HaShem says that He gave Israel the Sabbath to serve as a sign between Him and Israel that they might know that it is HaShem that sanctify them. Least they know of the multiple blessings upon Gentiles who decide to join God's Covenant with His People by keeping the Sabbath holy. (Isaiah 56:1-8)

 

[Ben Avraham]

When God says "forever" He does not mean until you decide not to keep it anymore.

You're right but, Paul decided to break that rule by releasing himself from the Law if you read Romans 7:6.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't really know what an Altar call is, or what it has to do with God or Salvation.
I do not even believe we are "saved" in this life. However if we truly repent " and god knows when we do" our past sins are forgiven. Nothing we can do or say "saves" us forever. We are all sinners and will continue to be sinners to our dying day.
What Jesus brought to the party, was a knowledge of a sure path of how to live our lives, in the love of God. and to show us the connection between Love, repentance and the forgiveness of sin.

Sins are not a list of bad things that we do....( for instance Sex is not a sin. However hurting someone else through our adultery is. "The causing hurt is the sin , not the sex")
All sins are abut Doing, Acting, Planning or even Thinking in a way that is Contrary to the Love of God or our fellow man or God's creation. It is as much about things we neglect to do. as to things we do do.

The Holy Spirit is with us, and all men Christian or not, from our conception. There is no need for some one or our selves to do anything. He is there, guiding us, and leading us to God. We have two choices We can Ignore the call of the Holy Spirit, or embrace it. This choice is fundamental and ours alone.

Jesus part, in all this, was a teacher and mentor. He showed us the path to follow, and How to live our lives for the Glory of God. He taught us what we need top know as God's living people on earth. He taught us what we needed to know about the forgiveness of sin.
With out the Teachings of Jesus few would live a pure and Godly life. So in that sense he "saved us. "

However God is the arbiter in all things. And we are perpetual sinners, we are not "Saved" with out God's grace and forgiveness. We should not care about our souls, they are forever in God's hands. not ours.

If we Love God, and let the Holy Spirit guide us, just as Jesus taught us by his selfless life, and sacrifice,then we may come to know God... If not in this life then in the next.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Mister God, This is Anna Quotes

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Mister God, This is Anna by Fynn

“Anna had bypassed all the non-essentials and distilled centuries of learning into one sentence:
"And God said love me, love them, and love it, and don't forget to love yourself."
The whole business of adults going to church filled Anna with suspicion.
The idea of collective worship went against her sense of private conversations with Mister God.

As for going to church to meet Mister God, that was preposterous.
After all, if Mister God wasn't everywhere, he wasn't anywhere.
For her, churchgoing and "Mister God" talks had no necessary connection.

For her, the whole thing was transparently simple.
You went to church to get the message when you were very little.
Once you had got it, you went out and did something about it.
Keeping on going to church was because you hadn't got the message or didn't understand it or it was "just for swank.”

Fynn, Mister God, This is Anna

I love those Quotes they are so true.......

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Therefore? I see little reason to accept some line by Paul as holy writ. This thread may be more appropriate to the Christianity DIR where your audience shares your basic assumptions.

You and me too.
Not all Christians believe in a Salvation like that, as if it was a done deal.

 

[kjw47]

Dear 47,
I thought you were only to have only one teacher. (Mt 23:8).

His real teachers teach -ALL that Jesus taught. As well as every utterance from God--for all to live by daily.

 

[Muffled]

Okay, no more question but one. If that's how you believe, why don't you believe in Jesus' words when he said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. That's also in Luke 16:29-31. If you believe what is written in Luke, there you are!

I believe you are in error because Jesus was relating a story in which Abraham said that, not Jesus. I believe the point of the story is that if people didn't follow Moses then they were not going to follow Jesus even though He rose from the dead.

 

[Muffled]

His real teachers teach -ALL that Jesus taught. As well as every utterance from God--for all to live by daily.

I believe one should let me know when he finds one. I never have and certainly not a JW teacher who is so far from the truth that Jesus taught that it would be amusing if it were not for the fact that it is a sorry state of affairs.

 

[Muffled]

I don't really know what an Altar call is, or what it has to do with God or Salvation.
I do not even believe we are "saved" in this life. However if we truly repent " and god knows when we do" our past sins are forgiven. Nothing we can do or say "saves" us forever. We are all sinners and will continue to be sinners to our dying day.
What Jesus brought to the party, was a knowledge of a sure path of how to live our lives, in the love of God. and to show us the connection between Love, repentance and the forgiveness of sin.

Sins are not a list of bad things that we do....( for instance Sex is not a sin. However hurting someone else through our adultery is. "The causing hurt is the sin , not the sex")
All sins are abut Doing, Acting, Planning or even Thinking in a way that is Contrary to the Love of God or our fellow man or God's creation. It is as much about things we neglect to do. as to things we do do.

The Holy Spirit is with us, and all men Christian or not, from our conception. There is no need for some one or our selves to do anything. He is there, guiding us, and leading us to God. We have two choices We can Ignore the call of the Holy Spirit, or embrace it. This choice is fundamental and ours alone.

Jesus part, in all this, was a teacher and mentor. He showed us the path to follow, and How to live our lives for the Glory of God. He taught us what we need top know as God's living people on earth. He taught us what we needed to know about the forgiveness of sin.
With out the Teachings of Jesus few would live a pure and Godly life. So in that sense he "saved us. "

However God is the arbiter in all things. And we are perpetual sinners, we are not "Saved" with out God's grace and forgiveness. We should not care about our souls, they are forever in God's hands. not ours.

If we Love God, and let the Holy Spirit guide us, just as Jesus taught us by his selfless life, and sacrifice,then we may come to know God... If not in this life then in the next.

I believe that is contrary to what the Bible says.

I believe forgiveness of sin is not salvation from it but simply salvation from wrath. It would belike saying an alcoholic was saved because there is a hangover pill that keeps him from having hangovers or the person performing sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is saved by using a condom.

I believe that is just warmed over Judaism with Christian trappings and not true Christianity and it will not save a person from sin.

I believe that would be nice. The world would be a much better place but the reality is that it isn't and that is the death knell for universalism and humanitarianism.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I believe that is contrary to what the Bible says.

I believe forgiveness of sin is not salvation from it but simply salvation from wrath. It would belike saying an alcoholic was saved because there is a hangover pill that keeps him from having hangovers or the person performing sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is saved by using a condom.

I believe that is just warmed over Judaism with Christian trappings and not true Christianity and it will not save a person from sin.

I believe that would be nice. The world would be a much better place but the reality is that it isn't and that is the death knell for universalism and humanitarianism.

You have humanism muddled up with your Humanitarianism

 

[Muffled]

You have humanism muddled up with your Humanitarianism

I believe I stand corrected that it is humanism not humanitarianism.

 

[kjw47]

I believe one should let me know when he finds one. I never have and certainly not a JW teacher who is so far from the truth that Jesus taught that it would be amusing if it were not for the fact that it is a sorry state of affairs.

I have studied religion, bible, Jesus for over 50 years--There is 0 doubt Jesus is with any but the JW teachers.
Try learning what he taught--like this ultra important teaching every true followers heart instructs their mind to do daily

Matthew 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added to you( sustenance, covering, spirituality_Matt 6)

Unfortunately for mortals on earth--this is mosts reality--2Timothy 3-- they seek--pleasure and money--FIRST.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe you are in error because Jesus was relating a story in which Abraham said that, not Jesus. I believe the point of the story is that if people didn't follow Moses then they were not going to follow Jesus even though He rose from the dead.

Jesus did not rise from the dead. He was a Jew and Jews don't believe in his Hellenistic doctrine. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.)

 

[Ben Avraham]

And you know what? People do not have a problem with nine of the ten commandments. It is just that tricky one about keeping the seventh day that they like to find excuses not to keep.

Let them look for as many excuses as they wish. Anyway, they are under no obligation to observe the Sabbath as the Jews do. For the Jews it is a duty. For Gentiles it is a choice.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Do you agree people should not kill other people and should not steal and should not commit adultry? In other words you do not have a problem with nine commandments? So why is one of the ten any different?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Do you agree people should not kill other people and should not steal and should not commit adultry? In other words you do not have a problem with nine commandments? So why is one of the ten any different?

Probably because that commandment to keep the Sabbath holy was given as a sign between God and Israel as an evidence that HaShem is our God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

That one was written in stone along with the other nine. If you think people should follow the other nine then you are only looking for excuses not to follow that one.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you agree people should not kill other people and should not steal and should not commit adultry? In other words you do not have a problem with nine commandments? So why is one of the ten any different?

That one was written in stone along with the other nine. If you think people should follow the other nine then you are only looking for excuses not to follow that one.

I can see where you're coming from and I think you've made a legitimate observation. Even as Christians, if we claim to believe the Ten Commandments, we can't very well say, "Except for one or two of them." I suppose I could say that I am more compelled by the spirit of the law than by the letter of the law. I believe that God set aside the Sabbath as a day for rest and worship. It is to be different from all of the other days of the week. The second somebody says, "I keep every day holy, not just one," I know that this is merely an excuse to disregard God's commandment. Certainly, we can try to be faithful Christians seven days a week, but that's not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath Day holy. To me, the importance of the commandment is not in which day, specifically, we observe the Sabbath, but that we do make one day a week different from all of the others. I sincerely believe (although I admit that if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time) that it is not all that important to the Lord whether we set aside Saturday or Sunday or any other day, but that our activities on whatever day we choose to observe the Sabbath be in line with what He would find acceptable. I personally observe the Sabbath every Sunday. On that day, I attend church and limit my activities to those that will be spiritually uplifting. In other words, I try to organize my life in such as way that I don't have to spend my Sundays doing housework, paying bills or going shopping. I go to movies and sporting events on the other six days of the week, and try not to fill my mind with things of a more temporal nature. I try to give both my mind and my body a rest from the things of the world and focus on the things that really ought to be the most important. If someone else chooses to do this on Saturday instead of Sunday because that's what they believe God wants, then good for them. They are doing exactly what they should be doing. They are following their own conscience and that's exactly what God expects them to do.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It is an interesting idea that it does not matter to God which day we set aside to be different from the others. However, God already set aside one day. He worked six days and set aside the seventh. He did not say we should pick any day we want. He said remember the seventh.