Salvation in the scriptures, the born again movement

[Riders]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

 

[allfoak]

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

Mister God, This is Anna Quotes

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Mister God, This is Anna by Fynn

“Anna had bypassed all the non-essentials and distilled centuries of learning into one sentence:
"And God said love me, love them, and love it, and don't forget to love yourself."
The whole business of adults going to church filled Anna with suspicion.
The idea of collective worship went against her sense of private conversations with Mister God.

As for going to church to meet Mister God, that was preposterous.
After all, if Mister God wasn't everywhere, he wasn't anywhere.
For her, churchgoing and "Mister God" talks had no necessary connection.

For her, the whole thing was transparently simple.
You went to church to get the message when you were very little.
Once you had got it, you went out and did something about it.
Keeping on going to church was because you hadn't got the message or didn't understand it or it was "just for swank.”

Fynn, Mister God, This is Anna

 

[Riders]

That's probably how my Mom felt too which is pretty good. Thankyou for that.

 

[Muffled]

That's probably how my Mom felt too which is pretty good. Thankyou for that.

I believe she took the easy way out. I can understand that but wonder if Jesus would have taken the easy way or would he have gone to the cross for those church members.

 

[Riders]

its not her duty to do it for the members if its a lie when you reaccept him your working for your salvation and the other thing is it says you've lost your salvation and that's what theyre saying. When they make people reaccept Jesus, that's one the whole points I'm making here.

She didn't agree with the idea of being able to lose salvation which is one thing the church now teaches and that's one reason she didn't go back to church. Its also futile. My Mom did it over and over at the Baptist church she went out and drank all the time and it was when she went to AA and did the work to change that she became different.

What she was saying is that really saying the sinners prayer and responding to alter call over is not going to change you macially as if it were a magic spell which also seems what the church is implying. You have to work on yourself if you want to change.

 

[Muffled]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

I believe I was also. My church was an American Baptist church.

I believe that is not Biblical. There is no requirement for an altar call or using the right words. I was saved in private on my porch sitting in a rocking chair and I don't recall calling on His name but simply accepting Him as my savior. Confession with my mouth did not take place until 7 years later and at that time I was baptized but I was just as saved during those 7 years. For me it was not a belief but an act of will.

I don't believe this verse is saying how to be saved but simply reveals what salvation is. The person who is saved confesses by mouth that he is after having been saved. It is like saying a cow moos. The cow isn't a cow because it moos. It moos because it is a cow.

I believe I agree that one need not believe in the Trinity to be saved but Jesus does see a lack of belief in the Trinity as having a false image of God. He doesn't want His people worshiping false images.

I believe we are not saved by faith but by grace as per this verse:
Eph. 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not of works, that no man should glory.
However like any gift, it has to be received.

I believe this is nonsense. A person goes through sanctification which can be a process. It is a sign of the times that people want instant gratification. It is something I hear from my Southern Baptist pastor that one must inspect the fruit to see if a person is truly saved or not. This doesn't work with Alcoholism, since technically it is not so much a sin as a weakness of the flesh. The question should not be "is the person becoming drunk" but rather "is the person seeking help not to be drunk." And a corollary to that is "what is the church doing to help the person be sober."

I believe that is not necessarily the case. An 8 year old can make the statement and then have a change of mind as the mind matures. I would say it was more likely an acceptance as an adult that would serve as salvation.

 

[Muffled]

its not her duty to do it for the members if its a lie when you reaccept him your working for your salvation and the other thing is it says you've lost your salvation and that's what theyre saying. When they make people reaccept Jesus, that's one the whole points I'm making here.

She didn't agree with the idea of being able to lose salvation which is one thing the church now teaches and that's one reason she didn't go back to church. Its also futile. My Mom did it over and over at the Baptist church she went out and drank all the time and it was when she went to AA and did the work to change that she became different.

What she was saying is that really saying the sinners prayer and responding to alter call over is not going to change you macially as if it were a magic spell which also seems what the church is implying. You have to work on yourself if you want to change.

I believe what I am saying is that she should have defended her faith and shown them the errors of their ways otherwise they would just continue in those erroneous ways. The error is in thinking that the church is completely sanctified but the truth is that it continues to be a process for them also.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Yeah, salvation ain't a car wash.

 

[Riders]

Hi Kelly

 

[moorea944]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Great post! Thanks.

Just would like to comment on Romans 10. A lot of religions out there base their salvation on that one verse. All you have to do is believe...... And that's it for salvation. Just believe and your saved and then you can still do anything else in life and it doesnt matter. What the verse "doesnt" say is "the only thing you have to do". If we believe that "belief" is the only thing we need to do to be saved, we have to throw out most of scripture where it talks about other things on salvation.

So what else saves us?.... Baptism, truth, endurance, faith, etc... But belief is first and foremost and important. We have to believe first. And what does "being saved" mean? Are we saved into something? Are we saved out of something? Is God "saving" us for something for his own plan and purpose. Of course he is.
Salvation and "being saved" are wonderful topics to talk about.

I really like what James says about our faith in chapter 2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yes, a man may say, you hast faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Salvation is a process, it is a life of being a servant to God and "doing" is will and what he wants from us.

So we see in scripture that faith is important with works. It's also what we do in life that our Creator looks for in his servants.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

 

[kerndog]

Great post! Thanks.

Just would like to comment on Romans 10. A lot of religions out there base their salvation on that one verse. All you have to do is believe...... And that's it for salvation. Just believe and your saved and then you can still do anything else in life and it doesnt matter. What the verse "doesnt" say is "the only thing you have to do". If we believe that "belief" is the only thing we need to do to be saved, we have to throw out most of scripture where it talks about other things on salvation.

So what else saves us?.... Baptism, truth, endurance, faith, etc... But belief is first and foremost and important. We have to believe first. And what does "being saved" mean? Are we saved into something? Are we saved out of something? Is God "saving" us for something for his own plan and purpose. Of course he is.
Salvation and "being saved" are wonderful topics to talk about.

I really like what James says about our faith in chapter 2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yes, a man may say, you hast faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Salvation is a process, it is a life of being a servant to God and "doing" is will and what he wants from us.

So we see in scripture that faith is important with works. It's also what we do in life that our Creator looks for in his servants.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

I concur, the word translated as "Believe" or "Belief" is much much more than merely believing, it requires EFFORT (Luke 13:23) a number of bibles use the word "strive" which does not capture the true essence of the word, (Strongs #G75) one of the very good translations i use, uses the word "vigorusly" which when you look at the actual meaning of the greek word, is a very fitting word ! The word "Believe" as most bibles put it , notice how Vines Dictinary of bible words puts its meaning as "More than a mere credence, or belief". Notice how this same exact word in John 14:12 should move us to do ! Thats right ACTION, not just belief . Our lord Jesus Christ, made this very very plain at MATTHEW 7:21..the.only ones entering into The kingdom , would be the ones DOING the will of his father, not just believing or accepting Jesus as your savior. When you study Gods word dilligently, the requirement for OBEDIENCE will jump right out at you.....Luke 6:46...8:21...1 John 5:3....I could go on for hours, but for now i will not try to bore anyone with a longwinded rant !

 

[Muffled]

I believe believing in Jesus means one accepts everything Jesus has to say about salvation and everything else.

 

[kerndog]

I believe believing in Jesus means one accepts everything Jesus has to say about salvation and everything else.

AND THAT WOULD BE ??

 

[kerndog]

I believe believing in Jesus means one accepts everything Jesus has to say about salvation and everything else.

The problem for christendom is, that they have falsely decieved their followers into thinking salvation requires no effort on their part, just believe and reap the rewards for doing absolutely nothing on their part, relieving themselves of any responsiblity on their part (Ecl. 12:13...1Jo.2:6) So, if you are practicing some sin that you have refused to give up, that god has commanded is not acceptable, then it is not acceptable, and there is NO salvation for that person, no matter how you try to twist and tweek Gods word. At Matt. 6:33 Jesus in his masterpiece, the "sermon on the mount" he tells us to "seek first the kingdom , AND HIS , rightiousness" not the worlds standard for what is right or wrong. Thats why the apostle paul said at... Rom.12:2...to stop being molded by this world or, this system of things ! The bible also teaches that a saved person CAN lose that salvation, it DEFINETLY does NOT teach, once saved always saved !

 

[Muffled]

AND THAT WOULD BE ??

I don't believe I am interested in rewriting the Bible for you let alone provide extra-biblical things.

 

[Muffled]

The problem for christendom is, that they have falsely decieved their followers into thinking salvation requires no effort on their part, just believe and reap the rewards for doing absolutely nothing on their part, relieving themselves of any responsiblity on their part (Ecl. 12:13...1Jo.2:6) So, if you are practicing some sin that you have refused to give up, that god has commanded is not acceptable, then it is not acceptable, and there is NO salvation for that person, no matter how you try to twist and tweek Gods word. At Matt. 6:33 Jesus in his masterpiece, the "sermon on the mount" he tells us to "seek first the kingdom , AND HIS , rightiousness" not the worlds standard for what is right or wrong. Thats why the apostle paul said at... Rom.12:2...to stop being molded by this world or, this system of things ! The bible also teaches that a saved person CAN lose that salvation, it DEFINETLY does NOT teach, once saved always saved !

I believe you have no evidence to support this theory. I believe the truth is that the more I become nothing and do nothing the more I am saved from sin. As for salvation from the wrath of God accepting Him is enough.

I believe that is doing something which is contrary to the repentance required by Jesus. A lack of repentance is a lack of acceptance of Jesus.

 

[McBell]

I believe you have no evidence to support this theory. I believe the truth is that the more I become nothing and do nothing the more I am saved from sin. As for salvation from the wrath of God accepting Him is enough.

I believe that is doing something which is contrary to the repentance required by Jesus. A lack of repentance is a lack of acceptance of Jesus.

Seems you are not familiar with "once saved, always saved" theology.

 

[kerndog]

I believe you have no evidence to support this theory. I believe the truth is that the more I become nothing and do nothing the more I am saved from sin. As for salvation from the wrath of God accepting Him is enough.

I believe that is doing something which is contrary to the repentance required by Jesus. A lack of repentance is a lack of acceptance of Jesus.

Well, lets look at this "THEORY" , Lets look at what the bible state on this "THEORY" Assuming the bible is the basis for your beliefs. I have had a number of pastors try to use the book of Romans and some of Pauls words there. So, let me ask you , why do you think this is a mere theory ?

 

[Riders]

Well my original post wasn't saying repentance isn't required. Repentence and belief and baptism although I'm not Christian.

But if your going by the bible that's it and its also say faith without works is dead. But the alter call to accept Jesus and the sinners prayer is no where in the bible.

 

[kerndog]

Well my original post wasn't saying repentance isn't required. Repentence and belief and baptism although I'm not Christian.

But if your going by the bible that's it and its also say faith without works is dead. But the alter call to accept Jesus and the sinners prayer is no where in the bible.

A person who has gained salvation by faith in Jesus Christ can lose that faith and the salvation that comes with it. The bible says that maintaining faith requires GREAT EFFORT, a "Hard Fight"...Jude 3,5...Luke 13:24..The word here in Luke "strive"..."Exert every effort"..."Struggle" Depending what bible translation you are using, the word,(Strongs #G75) means in all the lexicons and word dictionarys I looked at, "TO STRUGGLE, THE IDEA IS TO EXERT ONES MAXIMUM EFFORT, TO STRAIN EVERY NERVE"....thus, the translation I mostly use, uses the word "VIGORUSLY" showing us the effort we must put forth to maintain our salvation, that Paul here in Philipians 2:12 tells us about. The bible warns against serious sins that will keep a person from entering Gods kingdom. 1Cor 6:9-11...Gal. 5:19-21...If salvation could not be lost, such warnings would be meaningless . Instead, the bible shows that someone who has been saved can fall away by returning to a PRACTICE of serious sin. For Example; HEBREWS 10:26...HEB. 6:4-6...2Pet. 2:20-22. OBEDIENCE plays a KEY role in your salvation, it requires effort on your part. Jesus tells us the main thing we need to do to learn what he wants us to be obedient to..so that we can be saved .in his prayer in John 17:3..KNOWLEDGE, and how do you get it....the bible !