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Salary Question Reinforces Wage Gap

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
When was the last time you were on the hunt for a job? Do you remember a question where you were asked to divulge the pay rate of your previous positions? Did you stop to ask yourself "why on earth is a prospective employer asking me this?" Next time, you should... especially if you're a woman.

"Aileen Rizo was training math teachers in the public schools in Fresno, Calif., when she discovered that her male colleagues with comparable jobs were being paid significantly more.

She was told there was a justifiable reason: Employees’ pay was based on their salaries at previous jobs, and she had been paid less than they had earlier in their careers.

Ms. Rizo, who is now running for the California State Assembly, sued. In April, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled in her favor, saying that prior salary could not be used to justify a wage gap between male and female employees.

....

Employers often base a starting salary on someone’s previous one, so at each job, the gender pay gap continues, and it becomes seemingly impossible for women to catch up."
How a Common Interview Question Fuels the Gender Pay Gap (and How to Stop It)

As the New York Times reports, a few states and companies have taken to banning asking this question entirely as a proactive way of narrowing the pay gap in the absence of meaningful federal-level legislation to address it. I found this article interesting, because I'd never given much thought to the salary history questions. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that the information would not be used in our best interest.

Thoughts?

 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
That's a really dumb practice, and I'm glad that the question is being banned. Is it just asking the question, or basing someone's pay off of their prior jobs' pay entirely that is being banned?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's a really dumb practice, and I'm glad that the question is being banned. Is it just asking the question, or basing someone's pay off of their prior jobs' pay entirely that is being banned?
It's useful negotiating information (for the employer) in some cases.
But a wise applicant would usually never divulge such info.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
That's a really dumb practice, and I'm glad that the question is being banned. Is it just asking the question, or basing someone's pay off of their prior jobs' pay entirely that is being banned?

If you read the full article, it states that asking about salary history is outlawed. However, keep in mind this legislation is impacting only a few states and a few of companies. In most of the country, it will still be legal.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Clearly, this practice should be banned in all areas. Though I was normally "head hunted" during my career I was never asked how much I made at my previous employers. The subject never came up. Each new job offer either gave me slightly more money or in two cases, considerably more money.

It's sort of funny with my last interview (over lunch I was invited to by the company president). When he offhandedly told me how much he was offering I had to try very hard not to choke on my salad. I told him, "Hmm. I'll have to think about it." A day or so later I made a counter-proposal for slightly more and he came back with an alternate proposal that was, in a word, sweet.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
One of the advantages to organized labor, AKA unions, is being able to find out the answers to similar questions.
Questions like, "What did the last person get paid?" Or "What's this job really worth to The Company?"
Tom
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Clearly, this practice should be banned in all areas. Though I was normally "head hunted" during my career I was never asked how much I made at my previous employers. The subject never came up. Each new job offer either gave me slightly more money or in two cases, considerably more money.

It's sort of funny with my last interview (over lunch I was invited to by the company president). When he offhandedly told me how much he was offering I had to try very hard not to choke on my salad. I told him, "Hmm. I'll have to think about it." A day or so later I made a counter-proposal for slightly more and he came back with an alternate proposal that was, in a word, sweet.
But this unstructured & unregulated process works against people
who are weak, feckless & unambitious. How can life be fair if some
people do better than others because of intelligence & ambition?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
But this unstructured & unregulated process works against people
who are weak, feckless & unambitious. How can life be fair if some
people do better than others because of intelligence & ambition?
I think part of the problem is that a great many people are very poor negotiators and haven't a clue how to attack the opportunity.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think part of the problem is that a great many people are very poor negotiators and haven't a clue how to attack the opportunity.

There's a fine little book called, "You can Negotiate Anything", Herb Cohen. Quite an eye-opener to anyone who is unfamiliar with the notion that everything is negotiable.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
It's useful negotiating information (for the employer) in some cases.
But a wise applicant would usually never divulge such info.
The employer can then easily disqualify the applicant right out for refusing to complete the application. Although, some might claim they dodge the bullet.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
You can take a gamble and lie about your salary. It's hard for the new company to confirm your actual salary.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The employer can then easily disqualify the applicant right out for refusing to complete the application. Although, some might claim they dodge the bullet.
But then a wise employer would recognize wisdom in the applicant.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
But then a wise employer would recognize wisdom in the applicant.
And promptly give them a pass until they can find the next sucker who will work at a fraction of the price. I am bitter because I never grew up in a time when the applicant had any real negotiating power. Now, the employer has most, if not all, of it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And promptly give them a pass until they can find the next sucker who will work at a fraction of the price. I am bitter because I never grew up in a time when the applicant had any real negotiating power. Now, the employer has most, if not all, of it.
That's loser talk. You're better than that. I know this.
You just need an attitude adjustment, & a commitment to effective bargaining.

I know people considering moving up the ladder, & big increases are possible.
It's a matter of what one has to offer. Many workers achieve great increases
in value on a job, & that means being able go get big pay increases. Job
hunting & getting is a learned skill. You might benefit from some mentoring.

And right now, depending upon your field, there are fantastic opportunities.
Skilled trade workers in Michiganistan are very hard to find. Daughter is
a recruiter for a financial firm in NYC. One intern still in college (undergrad)
is getting $200K/year. Recent grads (PhD) in math & info tech can get
$500K/year to start.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
That's loser talk. You're better than that. I know this.
You just need an attitude adjustment, & a commitment to effective bargaining.
Sweet! I'm listening.

Many workers achieve great increases
in value on a job, & that means being able go get big pay increases. Job
hunting & getting is a learned skill. You might benefit from some mentoring.
This is entirely possible. A bit of context for me is that I am in the midst of a career switch. Means I am willing to take a few lower paying opportunities to start. Right now I need that experience and industry knowledge! So I have some time to wise up to maneuvering and working to get something better down the road.

And right now, depending upon your field, there are fantastic opportunities.
Skilled trade workers in Michiganistan are very hard to find. Daughter is
a recruiter for a financial firm in NYC. One intern still in college (undergrad)
is getting $200K/year. Recent grads (PhD) in math & info tech can get
$500K/year to start.
I am going into Software Development and Big Data analysis. My hope is that while I might not be kicking the door in at 500k a year, working towards 100k over the next few years isn't out of the picture. As time goes, my hope is that my salary will grow with my experience.

I will also admit, part of my struggles up until now was partially my fault. I was an academic in higher ed. No money there and that isn't the fault of the employers. But I got a bit bitter because if I didn't fill all of the boxes out correctly, you were out pretty much be default. Why? The jobs are pretty easy and highly competitive. Now, I am moving into not-so-easy work that is not as competitive. We will see!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Sweet! I'm listening.


This is entirely possible. A bit of context for me is that I am in the midst of a career switch. Means I am willing to take a few lower paying opportunities to start. Right now I need that experience and industry knowledge! So I have some time to wise up to maneuvering and working to get something better down the road.


I am going into Software Development and Big Data analysis. My hope is that while I might not be kicking the door in at 500k a year, working towards 100k over the next few years isn't out of the picture. As time goes, my hope is that my salary will grow with my experience.

I will also admit, part of my struggles up until now was partially my fault. I was an academic in higher ed. No money there and that isn't the fault of the employers. But I got a bit bitter because if I didn't fill all of the boxes out correctly, you were out pretty much be default. Why? The jobs are pretty easy and highly competitive. Now, I am moving into not-so-easy work that is not as competitive. We will see!
Note the <optimistic> frubal is not sarcastic.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Sweet! I'm listening.


This is entirely possible. A bit of context for me is that I am in the midst of a career switch. Means I am willing to take a few lower paying opportunities to start. Right now I need that experience and industry knowledge! So I have some time to wise up to maneuvering and working to get something better down the road.


I am going into Software Development and Big Data analysis. My hope is that while I might not be kicking the door in at 500k a year, working towards 100k over the next few years isn't out of the picture. As time goes, my hope is that my salary will grow with my experience.

I will also admit, part of my struggles up until now was partially my fault. I was an academic in higher ed. No money there and that isn't the fault of the employers. But I got a bit bitter because if I didn't fill all of the boxes out correctly, you were out pretty much be default. Why? The jobs are pretty easy and highly competitive. Now, I am moving into not-so-easy work that is not as competitive. We will see!

I am a software developer that graduated from a no name school. I settled for a low paying development job and then transitioned to market value over the next 5-6 years.

Further more, you can accelerate that by proving your worth and then demanding it. Another negotiation tactic is to interview with other companies and force your current company's hand with potential exit. They will quickly determine if you're worth it or not. Just don't take it personally. It's business.
 
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