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Featured Resurrection of Christ - What's the evidence for and against a literal resurrection

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Wow, that must be an awful lot of pillows.:eek:
     
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  2. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    There is the account of the witch of Endor raising the spirit of Samuel.
     
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  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I don't know, or whether out of the body, I don't know; God knows), such a one caught up into the third heaven.

    Plus many read this as an account of the afterlife.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Well I never.....
    George, I haven't got time to watch the interview now but I've copied the link for tomorrow.

    After a very strange experience during which I may have been healed, and having experienced Harry Edwards of Leatherhead, England in 1973 I am open minded about spiritualism in any of it's manifestations.

    The people I met at the chapel (where I received healing) want me to attend an introductory group to learn more about mediums, clairvoyance etc.. They tell me I can receive but I can't feel or sense anything.

    But ever since the healing experience I've been having vivid dreams, really crazy stuff where I stand on a platform or stage and speak with an audience, but there are unreal p[arts where I'm trying to make tea for them all while we communicate together and keep spilling everything ....... bust china and ripped tea bags. Typical dreamworks.

    But at a Spiritualist meeting at Guildford in 1972 a clairvoyant, after telling a colleague he was doing clairvoyance for the wrong reasons and should stop, she pointed across a huge congregation (she was famous) and picked me out, saying that one day I would stand upon a stage just as she was doing, just then. She was so adamant about it all.

    But I don't feel anything............ But I can assure you that I don't dismiss people who I trust who talk about these things, and I do know you well from your posts, even though we could sit opposite each other on a coach and never know it.

    I'll watch the vid tomorrow.
     
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  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No need. You already ran away. Let's get back to the title of the thread. Do you have any evidence for the resurrection of Jesus? So far no one has found any.
     
  6. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Kelly! For real?
    What a shocker!
    Hope you're OK now.
    The ghost is on your side, lady. :)
     
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  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I hope you do watch the video. For me, I also had I believe two paranormal pranks played on me by this Erick. His calling card is pranks much like the ones I experienced.
     
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  8. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    WOW! So sorry for what you went through. Fear is a terrible thing as it manipulates its host. I pray that you are able to overcome and have a restful sleep.

    So thankful that a dream helped you out of it!
     
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  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Real Christians rely on spiritual faith and religious evidence from, for the ressurection of Jesus. The historical evidence is supplementary, only.



    Other gods aren't real, bad comparison.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    All you have is faith. The "historical evidence" is almost non-existent. And no, your god is no more real than any other god that is not supported by evidence. You do realize that there are countless different versions of the Christian "God", don't you? That is why there are thousands upon thousands of Christian sects.
     
  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Good memory! I'd fear to debate you, David.
     
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  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Your kitty cat avatar is too cute for words.
     
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  13. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Then the exchange is at an end. You believe as you claim here, and I believe as I stated. End of story.
     
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    It softens my opponents. They can't help themselves!
     
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  15. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I'm more of a minimalist in my bedding preferences. :)

    Didn't feel like it at the time. :)

    God looks out for me. I am a dreamer of dreams. :)

    And as a follow-up to my idea that we could be seeing "resurrections" from people who were just misdiagnosed as dead, here's a RECENT story:

    Man Wakes Up In Morgue After Being Declared Dead By Three Separate Doctors

    We can't even prove death 100% NOW.
     
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  16. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I think the details in John regarding the fluid build up of water and blood are interesting and worth considering further.

    When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
    The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
    Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
    But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
    But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
    And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
    For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

    John 19:30-36

    If the story were to be taken literally, then why would Jesus have fluid and blood in his abdominal cavity. I would speculate He would have had significant internal injuries, as a result of how he was treated (and beaten) prior to being crucified or part of rough handling nailing Him to the cross. That would account for His relatively quick death. I don't believe He could have recovered from such injuries to be alive again 3 days later.

    I don't believe Jesus coming back from the dead is plausible at all, even accounting for an Omnipotent, All-Powerful God. Jesus ascending into heaven (the stratosphere) may be a narrative that worked two thousand years ago when it was believed heaven was in the sky and hell below the earth, but unfortunately has no plausibility today.

    I think the post resurrection stories in the gospels were told through oral traditions and written down to convey spiritual truths rather than historic fact.
     
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  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    What amazes me most is that history is largely silent in regards to anything to do with Christianity during the first century AD. Other than Josephus and Tacitus we don't have too much to go on, other than the books of the NT and a few works that didn't make the grade. That is why I posted in the scripture section of debates.

    So in Matthew 27:50 - 54 it is written:

    Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
    Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

    You don't find it just a little odd that with all these dead people literally arising from their graves, the temple veil being torn, and the earthquake that none of it made the news?

    Jesus spoke figuratively. Why not Paul? Why do we need to take Paul's figurative speech literally and somehow consider this more authentic?
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    :D

    This is so true. They actually knew this way back when and placed a bell next to a buried coffin as well as had a "wake". In case they "woke" up. If they were buried, the would be able to ring the bell because of a rope fastened to it.

    Buried Alive: 19th-Century Safety Coffins - Dr Lindsey Fitzharris

    However, when a spear is thrust into the side of a person (like Jesus) and the blood has already separated into serum and cells, one can be sure he is dead. :D
     
  19. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Not really. I find it quite normal since there wasn't "news" in those days. It wasn't like there was a printing press or the phone cameras on record.

    If there was an earthquake, one would simple relegate it to "well, it was an earthquake". Even today many people will relegate a miracle to "there is a logical explanation".

    We also understand that the Romans weren't exactly noting every religious affair into their history or every miraculous claim. They controlled most of the world at that time and I'm sure that Jerusalem wasn't on the top of their list of record keeping.

    Perhaps the reality that Christianity grew so fast was a Testament in and of itself because of all the resurrected people that made people open to the Gospel.

    We can only speculate but I don't it weird that there wasn't "news".

    Jesus also spoke literally.

    I think it is pretty clear when it was literal and when it wasn't. "parable" is a good word to understand it was figuratively. "And he took up his bed and walked" is pretty good literal statement.
     
  20. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Of course by saying making the news, I mean being recorded in history.

    Earthquakes, depending on the magnitude, not necessarily recorded as you say. I personally see that it was more likely an earthquake in that the foundation of Jewish belief that was shaken, but it could be both literal and figurative. All those dead people rising from their graves....sounds figurative doesn't it? Through Jesus the blind can see, the mute can speak, and lame can walk, and the dead can live. Not only can they live, but live eternally. If it was literal it makes little sense, and history is silent about an extraordinarily unusual event of epic proportions.

    I suppose that's how the Jews felt about many of the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled figuratively, such as Jesus in regards Davidic Kingship. He was a spiritual not a worldly King.

    Once again, the problem is when we insist the allegorical to be literal and the literal allegorical. It is when humanity clings stubbornly to old ways and is unable to embrace the new, or religious adherents fail to see with their own eyes but through the eyes of others.The word that comes to mind is discernment.

    So other than an empty tomb (which isn't a proof of a resurrection) do you have any more 'evidence'?
     
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