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Featured Resurrection of Christ - What's the evidence for and against a literal resurrection

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeshua wasn't rejected by our people, thousands came to hear him at the Sermon on the Mount, thousands were following him after...

    The leaders of our people were the ones who rejected him, and then systematically destroyed the true followers by the fake religion of Christianity (John, Paul and Simon the stone ((petros)).
    Paul didn't teach the Good News we see prophesied in Isaiah & Yeshua's Gospel...

    Yeshua's Gospel was teaching that by his coming it is a sign that the Kingdom shall come (Messianic Age); Paul taught a dead Gospel, that Christ came to die for the sins of the world, and by his resurrection we're raised with him unto Grace.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  2. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    dsc00642.jpg DSC00539.JPG
    Hello Grandiseur! :)
    I think it might, in fact I believe that it does. Imagine that, me, having faith where you do not?

    An extraordinary meeting between Harry Edwards (Healer) of Leatherhead, England and my first wife in 1973 coincided with the ceasing of all her Epileptic fits for three years, sadly returning during the same month that Harry died.

    On Monday 16th October between 1400-1430 hours I received 'hands' healing at a Whitstable Spiritual chapel (England) and between then and Wednesday 18th October all signs, feelings, traces, biopsies, scans, bronchoscopies and other investigations etc of an urgent pro-forma lung cancer investigation (upon me) dissappeared or turned up negative, to the clear amazement of the consultant, my wife and self at that meeting.

    I'm still stunned by it all.

    I can perceive why so few Christians have clambered in to this thread. For the vast majority of Christians in the World their religion is a Faith, they have Faith in Jesus and the Bible, and therefore Evidence, Proof, Certainty etc is not an issue for them..... they simply HAVE FAITH. You know that I cannot share that with Christians, but I can respect their Faith.

    I don't know whether the photo above was analogue or digital, but there are some easy techniques to test a JPEG photograph for truth.
    1. If possible and available, place the computer cursor on the JPEG thumnail and it should show the JPEG number in Upper Case letters, if in lower case it has been altered. If the camera model, minute, hour, day, month and year of the picture is not shown then it is altered.

    My mother didn't like people orthe World but she loved her Grandson and our Cat dearly. After her death stationary transparent 'orbs' began to appear all around photos of the cat, and these orbs became frantic around photos of the grandson.

    The pic of her grandson (altered for this demonstration to disfigure his features which has therefore altered the JPEG number to lower case!) was taken on 03/27/05 at 16.32gmt.

    The pic taken of the cat was taken on 02/04/05 at 17.53gmt.

    WE just never know......! :)

    dsc00642.jpg DSC00539.JPG
     
  3. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Well, even my own father was perhaps recipient of some form of limited healing.
    However, when I say that healing has ceased, I refer specifically to the apostle kind of healing. This is where any illness, deformity, or broken bones, amputation is cured by someone putting their hands on a person and saying, 'be healed in the name of Christ.' (or some such phrase) And, it heals instantaneously.

    I have myself prayed for a healing that was within what I thought my be granted, and it was, but I still suffer from diabetes and shall die from it or old age, whichever takes me first.

    My grandson was visiting from far far away, and while on the island I live on was stung by some strong Man of War type thing; in either case, he needed medical attention of the best kind. We prayed for him and he was somehow redirected in the ambulance to the hospital where the leading expert on this happened to be at the moment, visiting, or? I forget. So, we thanked God that he was given the best treatment available.

    So, I know that God helps us, just not quite like when Jesus walked the earth.
    Pics
    Your pictures are amazing, and you are not a believer? How is that possible! ;)
     
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  4. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    People believe because they believe the books.
     
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  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    If one look at Greek demigods to Roman God emperors, after death they are said to ascend to heaven in a new glorious spiritual body. For example, a comet was said to be the celestial body of Ceasar ascending heaven. So pagans would be more comfortable with a spiritual body resurrection and ascension.
     
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  6. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Its important because because on the one hand they know its true they have zero idea why it's true. Since they have zero understanding of why it's true , they automatically default to scientific empericism. You can see it in how the doubting Thomas narrative is read. How that is read is determined by how you understand. Think of it as a Buddhist koan. The text isn't a road map, and certainly the writers clearly understood this. So it was also a teaching tool as well. But theology developed off to the side and it took on its own reality. That reality has zero to do with the text it only is good for seeing how our thinking has developed over 2,000 years intellectually. I use theology as a tool to see how the intellect is functioning in context to the text. I can read psychologists and in fact everyone In culture of "I believe" I don't believe" I am agnostic" that's normal three states of mind reinforcing each other that we call culture.

    Is that the text? No, it encapsulates that trinity and the writers knew it. There is nothing simple about that text it's read simplistically and the earliest teachers in Christianity understood this. That is not true today although there are some areas and people who are in Christianity that are more clear. But the current state really is no different than in jesus time or Buddhas time. The exact same thing. Absolutely no different just new clothing is all.
     
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  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Christians are told in Hebrews 11:1 to have faith in the things not seen, yet hoped for... Thus many often have faith in the death of jesus, and his resurrection.

    If they had more faith in the Bible, they'd reject Paul by seeing how prophecies are fulfilled in the Tanakh, that declares Christianity a deception.

    Plus if they had more faith in Yeshua they'd get the name right, and question that Paul and Yeshua disagree on nearly everything.
    Part of the reason the healing doesn't continue in miraculous quantities, is because it is only relying on faith and not medicine...

    In Mark 6:13, and James 5:14 the Disciples healed with the Anointing Oil; people are called Christians as it means followers of the Anointed one (Christ).

    When the anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24) is made properly with Kaneh-Bosem (Cannabis), then it makes a molecular compound; where all the ingredients in the Holy oil are known medicines already.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    This is Exactly why people leave christ. Its a total turn off that if a questioning atheist seeker is turned down for asking questions without scripture instead of helping him find christ you rather let god do it and ignore god's creation.

    Christianity is a communal faith not individual. If we cant see christ words through your speech, and the bible doesnt magically make people believe, what you say is leading people away from christ.

    Sorry @adrian009
     
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  9. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Next time I go to that chapel, if the same healer is there I will ask her if she can heal 'Grandiseur', an internet name somewhere in the World and see what she says and does. :)
    The diabetes quacks are getting very clever now, but I expect that you already know that.

    Maybe technology can be the new miracle?
    I'll bet that techno-limbs and sensors will be available in 100 years. Already there are techno-hearts. It just depends on how bigger number one is credited with in their bank account, that needs a miracle as well. :)

    That's just me, I guess. Some healers aren't Christian, and some 'ghost' hunters are atheists.
    We're just part of the human mix.[/QUOTE]
     
  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Ah well, you know what I think about Paul, and the Christian Jesus.
    Yeshua son of Joseph the handworker, who (no doubt) worked as a handworker himself until his talents lifted him to the degree of magi, just doesn't resemble Paul's spin.

    I didn't know that about cannabis. Our laws in England are utterly stupid, with police racing in all directions after cannabis, while they will no longer attend shops after thefts of under £200 in value even to collect thieves. Shop staff don't actually have a power of arrest of shop thieves now unless the thieves have hurt somebody or stolen over £200 of property.
    But cannabis ........... they'll bust your door down!
    :shrug:
     
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  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi again.......
    Many Christians mention the 'Heaven-Hell' thing (in different words) and give the 'we'll be ok, you'll be in trouble' angle.
    I'm a Deist, was dead for countless eons before life, and it was alright.
    If I am right, then you will be alright. :)

    Yes.
    As a Deist I do believe that my Deity is everything (and nothing) and that all is chaos, that is true.
    In fact I can now see that most atheists must believe in chaos as you say.
    Only theists could reasonably believe in an interested and loving Deity.
    For me I just cannot change what I perceive, I never had a choice, I just saw what I saw and see what I see.
    But you're right that we should all respect each other's philosophies, beliefs, faiths etc as long as they are not harmful.
     
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  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I listen to a number of modern psychic sources and my current best opinion is that Jesus was on the borderline between life/death when taken down from the cross. He recovered himself with psychic energies and abilities he learned in the east (Himalaya region). He went with and married Mary Magdalene and lived in southern France. They had five children, two of which died very young.
     
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  13. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    We were attaching bells with string to corpses not too long ago in case they woke up in the coffins. It's not too hard to imagine a religion developed around a weird medical quirk. While I loathe John with every fiber of my being, he's the only one to include details that makes me think the Romans pierced his side and relieved some sort of fluid buildup. Three days later, he was fine.

    I believe the death and resurrection to be distractions to the Way. Romans lined entire roads with crosses and people wake up from death every day ... in hospitals or elsewhere.

    Well, duh. Paul isn't focused on the Way. He focused on some shallow bumper sticker theology because it's an easier sell.

    Nothing stops an all-powerful God from forgiving me.

    But, again, we're not talking modern medicine here. "Resurrections" will happen to anyone we didn't properly know was dead. edit: Note that John the Baptist doesn't come back. It's almost like resurrections only occur if the cause of "death" is vague. Something as (ahem) "clear cut" as beheading ensures God's not respawning you. :)

    I've learned I should probably just accept all the religious players everywhere as they have about the same evidence of existing. Big fan of Krishna, who is much better written than Jesus. :)

    Fanaticism will make people do funny/tragic things.

    Hinduism is an extremely old religion. Must mean Vishnu, Shiva, and all the rest are real too.

    Both types of paradises, heaven and Eden, had ... "issues". Satan led a rebellion in heaven and Adam and Eve loved them some fruit. So, clearly, even WITH Paradise, nothing lasts forever.

    Yeah, Jesus, I was born in Memphis, TN. Had to hear about Elvis all the time. :)

    Context is important: it's the cloud edge illuminated. You can see the cloud edge continue past the spotlight.

    Who saw him? If sinners can't be in the presence of God, then no human can attest to the seating arrangements, right?

    I'm not one. You're still wrong.

    Go with God. He's more interesting. :)

    Yuck: beer. I'm with Jesus: wine is fine. :)

    You're going to be confused if the end times come and it's Ragnarok instead of the Apocalypse.

    It's kind of like listening to all the numbers in the OT about the conquest of Canaan. Funny how there are always so many people prior to skyscrapers. It's almost like they all exaggerate or something.

    [​IMG]
    "I had more of an audience than anyone else has ever had ever." -- some guy with poor counting skills
     
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  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Wow!! Look at that crowd! It is UGE!!
     
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  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yes agree, we can't say Yeshua had a 'huge' following; as saying thousands of people followed him.
    The Bhagavad Gita is fluidly written as poetry; whereas the Synoptic Gospel writers are a poorly written subjective opinion of a case of what might have been said.

    Yet within the Parables of Yeshua is some advanced thinking - They link over many prophecies in the Tanakh, showing a metaphoric concept becoming reality; tho appearing simple.
    That stems from Pauline doctrine 'all are under sin, and there is no God' (Psalms 14:1).

    There have been multiple places in Biblical text we can show people witnessing the Throne of God, with Heaven surrounding.
    This isn't discernible clearly from the text of the New Testament...

    Yet based on prophetic fulfillment within the Tanakh, that is what is meant to take place... The Lord's own right Arm shall accomplish all these things.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  16. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    "...does the court accept eye witness accounts?!"

    Only if the eyewitness is available to testify. Someone saying that someone else claimed to have witnessed something is called hearsay and is NOT accepted by the courts.
     
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  17. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I don't see a problem at all or believe Paul's experiences with Jesus were merely mystical. Clearly, if Paul saw or had an encounter with Jesus 40 days or any number of days after the crucifixion then it was the risen from the dead, resurrected Person of Jesus. Another thing is that Paul had more than that one interaction (on the Damascus road) with the risen Lord Jesus Christ. These personal interactions included Jesus giving Paul information he otherwise would not have had. For example, Paul was not present at the last supper, yet he received the details about it directly from the resurrected Jesus.

    For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 1 Corinthians 11:23-26
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you say this is a problem. Certainly Paul didn't see it as a problem. I don't know of any "conservative Christian" sees it as a problem either.

    But what evidence? You stated it:

    After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once;


    500 Witness is a pretty good case for a court.
     
  19. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    How important the resurection is depends on who a person believes Jesus is. If only a prophet as some believe, then the resurection would be of little importance. However to the Christian the resurection has much importance. Jesus said he would rise from the dead. If he did not, then he was lying, which would make him untrustworthy.
     
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  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope, the 500 Witness claim would not get anywhere near a court. That was hearsay when Paul heard it. Even if a supposed witness told Paul that would still be hearsay.
     
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