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Featured Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, means what?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    The Bible did day that, didn't it.
     
  2. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    there is only spiritual rebirth, from spiritually dead (psychic) to life:

    "42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." I cor. 15

    "14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one" 1 Cor. 2
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Those ' brothers ' (Jesus spiritual brothers ) of 1 Corinthians 15:50 are the raised or resurrected to heaven, and I find they are part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10.
    They are like the ones of Luke 22:28-30 who are called to serve with Christ in heaven over Earth.
    It is those ' brothers ' (brethren) who are the changed ones of 1 Corinthians 15:50-52

    No one who died before Jesus died is called to heaven - John 3:13; Acts of the Apostles 2:34

    As for the living ' sheep ' at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33 they are Not the ' brothers ' of Matthew 25:40.
    They are living people on Earth and can remain alive on Earth when Jesus begins his 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth. Those figurative ' sheep ' can gain 'everlasting physical life on Earth' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The thing about parables, is that they can expose multiple truths, while at the same time providing opportunity for multiple falsehoods. Mt 23 really isn’t a parable, but a statement of fact, whereas the “scribes and the Pharisees” are “hypocrites”, and that those who claim a relationship with those who “persecute from city to city” will be held accountable for the blood of the righteous (Mt 23:34-35)

    The “Shepherds” who the “Lord God” says (Ezekiel 34:10) “I am against the shepherds, and I shall demand my sheep from them… but I shall deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be food for them” are the “male goats” of Ezekiel 34:17 who will be judged (Matthew 25:32) because they didn’t feed the sheep (Ez 34:3) & (Mt 25:35). The sheep will also be “judged” (Ez 34:17).

    As for what the “good seed” is, well that is the “word of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:19). As for the “tare seed”, that would be the word of the “evil one” (Matthew 13:38). The sons of the evil one are just the tare plant being ready to be harvested. But the tares seed itself, is planted in the same field with the wheat seed, and that would be in the NT, for which the tare seed seems to take up about 2/3 of the acreage. As for the “coming time”, it is right behind the door (Matthew 24:33, and the “tares” will be “gathered up” “first”, and thrown into the “fire” (Matthew 13:30). A bummer for those looking forward to a “rapture”.
     
  5. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    it is resurrection when spiritually dead nature - psychic - gets enlightened and becomes spiritual -pneumatic, so they can see Christ within themselves, Christ who is near. Resurrection like in Prodigal Son story - "he was dead and became alive".
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Luke 22:28-30, is about the resurrected, such as Daniel, per Daniel 12:13 reigning in the Kingdom of God on earth (Revelation 20:4) & (Ezekiel 37:15-28) over the "twelve tribes of Israel" (Luke 22:30). While there is a possibility you are of the 12 tribes, that would mean you would have to keep their statutes and ordinances (Ezekiel 37:24).
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    As in Daniel resurrected at a later time as per Daniel 12:13, when Daniel 12:2 will stand up ( resurrected ) during Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth begins.
    Daniel like David ( Acts of the Apostles 2:34 ) I find are still asleep in the grave - Isaiah 38:18,10; Psalms 115:17.

    Those of Luke 22:28-30 died ' after ' Jesus died. No one was called to heaven who died ' before ' Jesus died (John 3:13).
    So, Daniel and like David ( Isaiah 31:1; Ezekiel 34:21; Psalms 45:16 ) will reign on Earth, while those of Luke 22:28-30; 2 Timothy 2:12 reign in heaven having that first or earlier resurrection as per Revelation 20:6.
    Jesus ' throne ' (Revelation 3:21) is in heaven. Those in heaven reign as 'kings and priests' ( Revelation 5:10 ) whereas those governing on Earth serve as ' princes ' as David will - Ezekiel 34:24.
     
    #47 URAVIP2ME, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Sure, I agree we can have a ' spiritual resurrection ', so to speak, but the dead person of John 11:11-14 was ' physically dead '.
    ALL the resurrections which Jesus performed were healthy 'physical' resurrections.
    Jesus was giving us a coming attraction, a preview, of what he will be doing on a grand-global scale when his 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins. There will be healing for earth's nations at that millennial time as per Revelation 22:2.
    Then mankind will be both 'spiritually and physically alive' with the opportunity to become part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, I agree the figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:37 will be judged.
    I find according to verse 37 the ' sheep ' have a ' favorable ' judgement.
    Whereas the haughty ' goats ' have an ' adverse ' judgement.

    Those ' weed/tares ' are thrown into the fire of Gehenna.
    Gehenna was a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever and Not burning forever.
    So, Gehenna (KJV English as hell fire ) is a fitting word for destruction. As in the wicked destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7.

    Since the Bible speaks of resurrection, then it is resurrection and Not rapture for anyone.
    Those humble ' sheep ' come through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
    They will follow the advice given at Isaiah 26:20 and remain on Earth - Proverbs 2:21-22.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 37:13, "My servant David will be king over them". Hosea 3:5," Afterward, the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king". "Afterward", is with regards to after "many days" when the "adulteress" bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver, is over. (Hosea 3:2-3) As for who will rule during the millennium, it will be those who were "beheaded because of the testimony of Yeshua....who came to life" and reigned for a "thousand years". Not 1000 plus 1 years or plus 300 years. They only "came to life" to reign with Christ on earth. If you want to look for the Spirits of Saints in heaven, you will have to look under the "altar" where there is not much reigning going on. (Revelation 6:9). They were told to "rest a little longer" (Rev 6:11).
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The tares, are thrown into the "furnace of fire", not "Gehenna". There is no "weeping and gnashing of teeth in "Gehenna". (Matthew 13:42). 1/3 of the people thrown into the refining fire come out alive (Zechariah 13:8-9). Only 2/3 perish.

    Hell, Gehenna, Hades, Purgatory, Sheol, are more in line with the grave, or the trash pit outside of Jerusalem, where trash and bodies are burnt.
     
  12. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    Lazarus is a very special case. Paul very clear about TYPICAL meaning of the process, I found no physical resurrection meant.
    "If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual (pneumatikon) body."
     
    #52 socharlie, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Out of all the resurrections that Jesus performed I find ALL of them were healthy physical resurrections.
    So, I would need to know which of Jesus' resurrections were Not physical resurrections.

    I find there are two (2) types of bodies mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:40; 1 Corinthians 15:48
    Adam, according to Genesis 2:7 and 1 Corinthians 15:45, was made a living soul.
    Whereas the 'last Adam' (meaning Christ) was made a living spirit.
    Jesus while in heaven had a 'spirit body' before God sent the pre-human Jesus to Earth.
    Adam, on the other hand, had No pre-human life or existence.
    Chapter 15 is directed to Jesus' 'brothers ' at 1 Corinthians 15:1 which are the ' brothers ' of 1 Corinthians 15:50,58.
    Chapter 15 is Not about humans in general. It is about Jesus' appointed ' brothers '.
    No one goes to heaven who died before Jesus' died as per John 3:13, so they will have a physical resurrection.
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    By placing biblical hell in the same category as Gehenna, then dead Jesus was burnt - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
    I find KJV translated hades and Gehenna into English as: hell and hellfire.
    So, Gehenna is in line with destruction ' the garbage pit where things were destroyed forever'. Not kept burning forever.
    Whereas, biblical hell is in line with the temporary grave for the sleeping dead, otherwise Jesus would still be in a burning forever hell instead of the temporary grave where the dead know nothing as per Ecclesiastes 9:5.

    Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B.
    Satan ends up in ' second death ' according to Revelation 21:8.
    So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for: destruction.
    Destruction as found at Psalms 92:7 that the wicked are destroyed forever (annihilated)
     
  15. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    here is archetypical principle, imo:
    40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. " Acts 10.
    It is not physical.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I agree, Not physical for Jesus, but Jesus did Not resurrect himself.
    According to Acts of the Apostles 2:24; 32; 3:15; 5:30; Colossians 2:12 the God of Jesus resurrected Jesus.
    God resurrected Jesus back to his pre-human spirit state or spirit body.
    That is why before the resurrected Jesus ascended to heaven he used different materialized bodies to appear to his followers.

    I find ALL the dead people Jesus resurrected were brought back to healthy physical life.
    I find Jesus promised that humble meek people will inherit the Earth in harmony with Psalms 37:9-11.
    So, there are two (2) bodies. Those ' brothers ' of Jesus (Matthew 25:40) who go to heaven, and the rest of mankind to be here on Earth. That is why Jesus will have earthly subjects or citizens of God's kingdom right here on Earth as described at Psalms 72:8, Psalms 72:12-14.
     
  17. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    we are spiritual beings, physical bodies are only electro mechanical devices we occupy as spiritual beings in order
    to learn good and evil. Physical world is not our original home.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Satan ends up in the "lake of fire", but does not apparently suffer a "send death", as he "will" apparently "be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev 20:10). Revelation 21:8, is for the "liars, etc." who will suffer a 2nd death. They do not have "eternal life", and their suffering will apparently be limited to the time it takes the lake of fire to render them dead.

    As for destroying "Satan", not going to happen. Satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years, and then released. He is then thrown into the lake of fire with the already present false prophet and beast, and as he has ever lasting life, he cannot die. (Rev 20:1-2 & 10). Man was saved from that fate by being thrown out of the Garden of Eden.

    As long as you look to the unknown writer of Hebrews, or Paul for you information, you will continue to walk around in blinders.
     
    #58 2ndpillar, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find according to the Bible that the physical world (Eden) was our original home.
    God gave Adam and Eve a job to do, besides having children, they were to enlarge Eden to cover the Earth.
    Mankind could live here on Earth forever if choosing to keep God's Law.
    That is why Jesus promised that humble meek people will inherit the Earth.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    After the 1,000 years I find Satan is released, and then thrown into ' second death ' as per Revelation 21:8.
    So, ' second death ' is a fitting symbol for the lake of fire.
    The definition of the lake of fire is defined as ' second death ' as found at Revelation 20:13-14.

    Since Jesus will destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B, then Satan does Not have everlasting life.
    ALL the wicked are 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7. Satan is wicked.
    Satan is a sinner. Sinners die according to Ezekiel 18:4,20. Some destroyed as per Acts of the Apostles 3:23.
     
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