Religious harassment in my local mall

[Awoon]

We are at war with terrorist here in the USA.


If you want to dress in a simular fashion as americans stereotype terrorist, be prepared for backlash.



Ignorance of the law is your fault if local laws state you must have your face in view keep it that way. we have the most open laws regarding religious freedom, it doesnt mean you wont have social ramifications.

On the other side of the coin, if i dress like a christian and walk through some middle eastern towns and cities id be murdered before i got ten feet.



Im all for religious freedom but theres a point where you will be asking for it if you push your religious values beyond local laws.

Your not in the home country where this dress style is the norm.

Ever hear of the "designated decoy?"

 

[etherealascension]

Ever hear of the "designated decoy?"

Yeah, the way I see it, if someone is close-minded enough to be ignorant and judgmental, that's their problem, not mine. I was once in an airport meditating and was asked to stop because it scared someone in the terminal. I'm deprived of practicing my faith (which is made even more intriguing by the fact that this person was mashing together Islamic extremism and standard Buddhist practice) because someone is judgmental and doesn't care to understand anything outside their white, american, christian box? That doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to me.

Unfortunately, it's the world we live in.

 

[Awoon]

Yeah, the way I see it, if someone is close-minded enough to be ignorant and judgmental, that's their problem, not mine. I was once in an airport meditating and was asked to stop because it scared someone in the terminal. I'm deprived of practicing my faith (which is made even more intriguing by the fact that this person was mashing together Islamic extremism and standard Buddhist practice) because someone is judgmental and doesn't care to understand anything outside their white, american, christian box? That doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to me.

Unfortunately, it's the world we live in.

Explain your religion in your local letter to the editor with your picture. Then register with the cops and get a respect my religion card.

 

[espo35]

Let me get this straight.... you and your friend were covering your faces and carrying satchels of prayer-books, beads and incense to honor your friend who died....AT THE MALL?????

 

[fantome profane]

Personally, I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

On behalf of the disabled I find your remark deeply offensive. Why ya gota be hatin?


But seriously I don’t get the impression that the OP is planning on suing anybody over this. I think writing a letter is an appropriate response. It is unfortunate that he couldn’t get the letter directly to the manager of FYE (I don’t even know what that is). The most that would have happened is that the manager would have had a talk with the employees, and that is all I think should happen.


And being spiritual doesn’t mean you ignore injustice.

 

[Me Myself]

I would like to start by saying that I have scarcely had any issues in any of the many Simon malls I have been in, but today was different.

Per my religious and spiritual beliefs, today I wore a shemagh (traditional middle eastern head cover) to the mall in town. Within five minutes, I was stopped by a security guard. He informed me of a mall rule which prohibited the obscuring of faces. I accepted this, and moved my head covering, revealing my face, but left the scarf around my head. He proceeded to inform me that the wearing of such an item is not allowed. I explained my religious beliefs and we came to a compromise that I and my friend (also wearing a shemagh) would be allowed to wear our coverings as long as our faces were not obscured. The security guard was very understanding and accepting, if not a bit hesitant about letting us wear our scarves.

The situation escalated later. I went into FYE (I apologize if this should be handled by FYE isntead of Simon malls, but I couldn't find anywhere to contact FYE directly and I thought Simon malls should know this anyway) and was immediately harassed. My friend and I (still both wearing shemaghs) walked through the door and were greeted by an employee giggling and saying "Praise Allah" in a pejorative manner. I was highly offended, but shrugged it off as ignorance. I wasn't in any mood to make a scene in the middle of the mall. My friend and I each carry satchels. In these bags were kept religious items including meditative incense, prayer beads, and religious books. The employee (the same one who harassed us earlier) approached us and asked us to leave our bags at the counter. We immediately refused his request on the grounds that we would not part with items so sacred. He demanded we either leave the store or leave the bags at the counter until we left. I feel like a victim of religious profiling. I saw others in the store with bags that were not questioned, but my friend and I were asked to leave our bags at the counter by a man who had previously made an offensive remark about our faith.

It is not in my nature to demand any be punished, but it may be in your company's better interest to inform its employees that profiling and harassment is against the law. I assure you, the offensive actions of this employee will not prevent me from frequenting your malls, but if I experience another situation like this, I will not hesitate to file harassment charges. Thank you for your time.










The above is a letter sent to Simon Malls regarding what happened to my friend and I this Sunday. Yes, this all happened, yes I wore the shemagh for a valid purpose. I do not consider myself to be highly religious (as discernable from my religion and title in my profile) but there were cultural and spiritual reasons for donning the scarf. I would appreicate it if people did not question my reasons as they are higly personal to my friend and I and our families. I just wanted people to be aware that things like this are all too common. It's not the first time my actions or attire were questioned, but it was the first time I was publicly called out and ostracized. I apologize if this post belongs elsewhere, this just seemed like a fitting place to put it.

From all of this this is my opinion:

It is natural that you were asked to leave your face recognizable, and I would say they very rightly did so (I am sorry it disturbed your respects for your departed friend )

The praise Allah in a disrespectful way is plain pathetic of the one working in the store, and obviously out of line. Hopefully he´ll get heavily reprimended to the least.

The thing with the bag I would say is normal and not bad, but because of the specific fact that you say that there were other peole with bags that weren´t asked to leave them then they had no right.

If everyone was asked to leave their bags, that would be another story, but to ask you particularly to leave your bag I would have asked "under what reason is my bag more at fault than theirs?" If they answer incorrectly, those are possible cases for discrmination.

 

[blackout]

Considering all of the burqua threads on this forum
I am truly surprised at the responses here.

Confused even.

 

[fantome profane]

Considering all of the burqua threads on this forum
I am truly surprised at the responses here.

Confused even.

A lot of the “burqua threads” have been about the issue of the government imposing a ban (like France). This is about a privately owned commercial business.

 

[etherealascension]

Let me get this straight.... you and your friend were covering your faces and carrying satchels of prayer-books, beads and incense to honor your friend who died....AT THE MALL?????

We were at my friend's house, but had to pick up his mother from work, hence being at the mall. From there, he was dropping me off at home, so I brought my bag. And my friend always carries his bag, he has more in it. It's like a "manpurse" for him, if you want to put it like that. But our mall is known for being prone to car break-ins, so we brought our bags as a just-in-case measure.

 

[Kathryn]

Based on your description, I think the employees snickering and saying "praise Allah" were out of line, but I don't think there was anything wrong with asking you to unconceal your face or leave your bag at the counter.

If I was an employee of the store and I saw someone come in dressed as you described, my instinct wouldn't be to assume that it was a religious observance; I would assume that the person is up to something:

- a person with their face concealed may be planning to engage in criminal activity (e.g. shoplifting, or potentially an armed holdup).
- a person wearing an attention-getting outfit may be trying to distract security personnel away from an accomplice doing something somewhere else in the store.

Once these suspicions are raised, I think they would have been right to ask for you to surrender your bag. From their point of view, it could've contain weapons or tools; you could be planning to use it to stash shoplifted goods... I don't think it was out of line to single you out for special treatment. Your conduct would have raised several legitimate red flags.

But like I said, I think the ridicule was uncalled for and inappropriate.

This. :slap:

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I would appreicate it if people did not question my reasons as they are higly personal to my friend and I and our families. I just wanted people to be aware that things like this are all too common. It's not the first time my actions or attire were questioned, but it was the first time I was publicly called out and ostracized.

I would say the security guards crossed the line when they said that you should remove the head scarf as well as the face veil. This was overkill as people wear head coverings all the time. You should ask yourself if they were doing this because they thought doing so was what was required of them or out of maliciousness. Even though it was wrong, if they did so out of perceived duty then you can find a way to forgive them for their mistake. If it was maliciousness then they are heartless demons who deserve to be punished.

Now in FYE. The comment was tasteless and passive aggressive but anger towards it gives the aggressor power over you so rise above that. The bag thing is due to theft and I would ask what kind of bag? Was it purse size or backpack/satchel size? Some stores will allow a woman to carry a purse but not anyone to carry a backpack. If this is the case it could just be a matter of policy directed towards anti-theft rather than a direct insult. Once again, you have to decide what the motivations behind the actions were.

One more note, this isn't something limited to religious or even Islam. You could substitiute a Goth for yourself and get the same results, or skateboarder, or any other person who lives outside the bounds that the majority have decided are their norms. Doesn't make it right or even better but maybe it helps to remember you aren't alone.

 

[muslim-]

You are faithless/buddhist and you wear shumagh? Anyhow, shumagh isnt a religious thing in Islam at all. Nor does it normally cover the face. Unless if its to prevent breathing dust in the desert, or during physical activity so that it doesnt fall.

Sounds to me you wanted to test the extent of freedoms there.

You have the right to do so, regardless of why you wore it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sounds to me you wanted to test the extent of freedoms there.

You have the right to do so, regardless of why you wore it.

True, but it seems a bit silly to do so and then protest the test results.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Honestly, this whole thing sounds kind of hinky, and seems to somehow disrespect the reality of issues of religious expression and freedom.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Honestly, this whole thing sounds kind of hinky, and seems to somehow disrespect the reality of issues of religious expression and freedom.

Excellent post.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

They do and you go through a line and a metal detector.

I wouldn't know that, bags aren't checked in malls where I live.

 

[etherealascension]

You are faithless/buddhist and you wear shumagh? Anyhow, shumagh isnt a religious thing in Islam at all. Nor does it normally cover the face. Unless if its to prevent breathing dust in the desert, or during physical activity so that it doesnt fall.

Sounds to me you wanted to test the extent of freedoms there.

You have the right to do so, regardless of why you wore it.

I'm fairly certain I covered all this a few pages ago. Yes, it was religious (or spiritual, however you wanna swing it), yes I see it used to cover the face more often than not, and no I wasn't just screwing around.

As for people questioning why I chose to wear a shemagh (for those of you who actually read my explanation a few pages back), I just used the shemagh to cover my face instead of something else. My face was to be covered. A woman I know uses a veil, my friend and I both use shemaghs. Again, this really only applies to those of you who read through the whole thread (I can see why you didn't, it's a long thread) and saw my explanation of wearing anything at all.

 

[Tamar]

I wouldn't know that, bags aren't checked in malls where I live.

They are not in the malls where I live but if you go into DC to a public or government building your bags will be checked and you will walk through a metal detector.

If you go into any public place and do anything to call attention to yourself the security will be on top of that very quickly.

The extremists have said on more then one occasion that we in the west are targets and we all know they don't care how many innocents they kill in the process.

In fact the Fort Hood shooter was from a mosque in my area and had been in contact with Al Alawki who had been a imam at the very same mosque the Fort Hood shooter attended.

Terrorism is taken very seriously where I live.

 

[YmirGF]

On behalf of the disabled I find your remark deeply offensive. Why ya gota be hatin?

:areyoucra Oddly, I hadn't realized that this very common expression was now considered deeply offensive.

And being spiritual doesn’t mean you ignore injustice.

I didn't say it did. I think you are confusing a minimal annoyance with injustice, and belittling the term by applying it here. I find that offensive.

In case you missed it, and I don't mean that to be a slur against the visually challenged, what I meant was that the writer of the OP could have confronted the person instantly and transmuted the negativity with some comment that was spiritual and inspiring. All but the thickest louts would get the point. Granted, people like to play the victim nowadays but that tendency is getting a bit ridiculous. Would it have been so wrong for him to retort, "Beauty is eternity gazing at itself in a mirror", whilst looking quizzically at the person in question.

Confrontation is good, when handled adeptly.

It certainly saves time whining on Internet net forums about opportunity's missed.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

They are not in the malls where I live but if you go into DC to a public or government building your bags will be checked and you will walk through a metal detector.

If you go into any public place and do anything to call attention to yourself the security will be on top of that very quickly.

The extremists have said on more then one occasion that we in the west are targets and we all know they don't care how many innocents they kill in the process.

In fact the Fort Hood shooter was from a mosque in my area and had been in contact with Al Alawki who had been a imam at the very same mosque the Fort Hood shooter attended.

Terrorism is taken very seriously where I live.

I think terrorism is taken pretty seriously most places.