Religious harassment in my local mall

[fantome profane]

:areyoucra Oddly, I hadn't realized that this very common expression was now considered deeply offensive.

You do realize I was kidding, right?

I didn't say it did. I think you are confusing a minimal annoyance with injustice, and belittling the term by applying it here. I find that offensive.

It seems that you and some others are asking why he made such a big deal about this. But it doesn’t seem to me that he made a big deal. He was offended by a store clerk who mocked him, and he wrote a letter. No big deal.

In case you missed it, and I don't mean that to be a slur against the visually challenged, what I meant was that the writer of the OP could have confronted the person instantly and transmuted the negativity with some comment that was spiritual and inspiring. All but the thickest louts would get the point. Granted, people like to play the victim nowadays but that tendency is getting a bit ridiculous. Would it have been so wrong for him to retort, "Beauty is eternity gazing at itself in a mirror", whilst looking quizzically at the person in question.

Confrontation is good, when handled adeptly.

It certainly saves time whining on Internet net forums about opportunity's missed.

Excellent response. But if you don’t mind me saying this sounds like the kind of perfect response that people come up with after they have had a day or so to think about it. I still don’t see what is wrong with writing a letter.

 

[etherealascension]

YmirGF, I understand your point, but as I stated, I didn't feel like making a scene in the mall (hence my ignoring the clerk and leaving the store altogether after he approached us). This particular employee has, excuse my language, royally ****** me off ever since I met him (I could list things he's done to me and my friends, but that's not the point here). I didn't feel like dealing with him. Hence my attempt at ignoring him and sending a letter.

 

[Poisonshady313]

We were at my friend's house, but had to pick up his mother from work, hence being at the mall. From there, he was dropping me off at home, so I brought my bag. And my friend always carries his bag, he has more in it. It's like a "manpurse" for him, if you want to put it like that. But our mall is known for being prone to car break-ins, so we brought our bags as a just-in-case measure.

Interesting. On one hand, it seems like you would have been more than willing to be apart from your bag and its contents if the mall weren't so prone to car break-ins... yet when you were asked to leave your bag at the counter (a security/theft prevention measure), your excuse is that you don't want to be separated from the contents of your bag.

And you were at the mall to pick up your friend's mom... does she work at the FYE? Or were you in there to browse CDs and DVDs to show your detachment from the material world?

 

[Nooj]

Let me get this straight.... you and your friend were covering your faces and carrying satchels of prayer-books, beads and incense to honor your friend who died....AT THE MALL?????

Do you normally judge how other people choose to mourn or does the anonymity of the internet permit you to be extra rude today?

 

[etherealascension]

Interesting. On one hand, it seems like you would have been more than willing to be apart from your bag and its contents if the mall weren't so prone to car break-ins... yet when you were asked to leave your bag at the counter (a security/theft prevention measure), your excuse is that you don't want to be separated from the contents of your bag.

And you were at the mall to pick up your friend's mom... does she work at the FYE? Or were you in there to browse CDs and DVDs to show your detachment from the material world?

I wasn't willing to part with my bag TO HIM. I made it clear that his extraordinarily rude comment was the catalyst for me getting angry about this. Not to mention, leaving my bag in the car is a little different than handing it to a store employee who mocked us and singled us out.

As for the second part, I'm getting kind of annoyed by people questioning my every action. We were picking up his mother who works near the mall. We were early and my friend was looking for a CD. I'm not sure why every little action of mine is under fire over this.

 

[Tarheeler]

…As for the second part, I'm getting kind of annoyed by people questioning my every action. We were picking up his mother who works near the mall. We were early and my friend was looking for a CD. I'm not sure why every little action of mine is under fire over this.

It is most likely because your actions, and the responses to them, are the topic of this thread.

 

[etherealascension]

It is most likely because your actions, and the responses to them, are the topic of this thread.

Understandable but when did it become such a condemnable action to go in a mall? Granted, most people wouldn't have been running around shopping given the circumstances, but we went in one store because my friend was looking for a CD. We had five minutes to kill before his mother got off work, I didn't realize we committed such a heinous crime against humanity.

 

[Tarheeler]

Understandable but when did it become such a condemnable action to go in a mall? Granted, most people wouldn't have been running around shopping given the circumstances, but we went in one store because my friend was looking for a CD. We had five minutes to kill before his mother got off work, I didn't realize we committed such a heinous crime against humanity.

It's never been a condemned action to go into a mall. But, then again, you didn't just go to a mall. You did so while covering your face and refusing to abide by recognized security measures.

Regardless of your justification for doing so, that is going to be taken, by many people, as either a very foolish or ignorant action based upon social norms. And the fact that you cite it as a form of mourning doesn't help when many see it as a time of withdrawal from society rather than an opportunity for a shopping trip.

While your actions and intentions might be exactly what you say, all we have to go by is your word. And, on the internet, that doesn't count for much. Some people are going to believe you; some people will not.

 

[Tamar]

Understandable but when did it become such a condemnable action to go in a mall? Granted, most people wouldn't have been running around shopping given the circumstances, but we went in one store because my friend was looking for a CD. We had five minutes to kill before his mother got off work, I didn't realize we committed such a heinous crime against humanity.

Going into the mall was not the problem. It was what you chose to wear and carry. In a day of heightened security due to terrorist threats against us you chose to wear a middle eastern scarf and COVER your face and carry a back pack. You were not alone so 2 of you wore scarves and carried back packs.

Your behavior set off red flags and I suspect when confronted you also were probably a bit belligerent which caused the security to behave badly towards you by their comments. They were wrong and you were wrong.

If you choose to dress in ways you know will set off red flags then that is your choice but you were not confronted for no reason.

But you still don't really understand that the safety of the shoppers in the mall was paramount. You made a choice and I suspect you understood what might happen.

Your religious rights were not violated. I think now you are being sarcastic because most of the posters are telling you that your choices caused the situation and that the mall security had reason to confront both you and your friend.

 

[Nooj]

It's never been a condemned action to go into a mall. But, then again, you didn't just go to a mall. You did so while covering your face and refusing to abide by recognized security measures.

Did you read the same OP as I did?

I accepted this, and moved my head covering, revealing my face

What the heck is going on? Has the world suddenly gone crazy?

 

[Tarheeler]

Did you read the same OP as I did?

What the heck is going on? Has the world suddenly gone crazy?

I did. And he clearly stated that when he entered the mall his face was covered. And when he entered the store, he refused to put his bags behind the counter, which is another common security measure.

 

[Nooj]

I did. And he clearly stated that when he entered the mall his face was covered.

He didn't know about that rule. When he was informed, he uncovered his face. If I go into a dojo without knowing that I was supposed to take off my shoes, and the sensei tells me off, did I refuse to abide by the rules? How can I refuse to abide by rules that I don't even know about?

And when he entered the store, he refused to put his bags behind the counter, which is another common security measure.

Oh? Then why is it that no one else was asked to give up their bags?

It is discrimination, pure and simple.

 

[etherealascension]

It's never been a condemned action to go into a mall. But, then again, you didn't just go to a mall. You did so while covering your face and refusing to abide by recognized security measures.

Regardless of your justification for doing so, that is going to be taken, by many people, as either a very foolish or ignorant action based upon social norms. And the fact that you cite it as a form of mourning doesn't help when many see it as a time of withdrawal from society rather than an opportunity for a shopping trip.

While your actions and intentions might be exactly what you say, all we have to go by is your word. And, on the internet, that doesn't count for much. Some people are going to believe you; some people will not.

It was not a "shopping trip". We were there for five minutes because my friend was looking for a CD before we had to pick up his mother from work. I never said "mourn". In fact, I pointed out that we celebrate death as transcendence. There was obviously sorrow that our friend was gone, but we looked at it as transcendence (suicide is indeed depressing, but that doesn't change the result of death, or transcendence).

 

[Tamar]

Did you read the same OP as I did?

What the heck is going on? Has the world suddenly gone crazy?

The world went crazy when Muslim terrorists flew 2 airplanes into the twin towers killing 3000+ people and the extremists have declared war on the west and my country the United States. I live 20 miles from where the plane hit the pentagon and so yes the world has gone crazy.

We live in a time when if you choose to go into a public place with your face covered carrying back packs and refuse to submit to security requests you will face more scrutiny.

Fair? Yes and everyone needs to understand that these security needs will not go away.

This is reality.

The safety of the many outweighs the freedom of 2 people when they have raised suspicions. The security guards were doing their job and they had a right to make the call. They were wrong to be rude but they were not wrong to expect the bag be checked or the face uncovered. They were not wrong to be suspicious.

 

[etherealascension]

Going into the mall was not the problem. It was what you chose to wear and carry. In a day of heightened security due to terrorist threats against us you chose to wear a middle eastern scarf and COVER your face and carry a back pack. You were not alone so 2 of you wore scarves and carried back packs.

Your behavior set off red flags and I suspect when confronted you also were probably a bit belligerent which caused the security to behave badly towards you by their comments. They were wrong and you were wrong.

If you choose to dress in ways you know will set off red flags then that is your choice but you were not confronted for no reason.

But you still don't really understand that the safety of the shoppers in the mall was paramount. You made a choice and I suspect you understood what might happen.

Your religious rights were not violated. I think now you are being sarcastic because most of the posters are telling you that your choices caused the situation and that the mall security had reason to confront both you and your friend.

I stated I had no problem with the security measures, especially the guard himself approaching us. He was kind, and in return, we were as well. We agreed to reveal our faces and came to a mutual agreement.

The issues arose when an employee felt it necessary to make a perjorative joke. I would have less of a problem with surrendering my bag as well had he not singled us as soon as we walked in the store.

 

[etherealascension]

The world went crazy when Muslim terrorists flew 2 airplanes into the twin towers killing 3000+ people and the extremists have declared war on the west and my country the United States. I live 20 miles from where the plane hit the pentagon and so yes the world has gone crazy.

We live in a time when if you choose to go into a public place with your face covered carrying back packs and refuse to submit to security requests you will face more scrutiny.

Fair? Yes and everyone needs to understand that these security needs will not go away.

This is reality.

The safety of the many outweighs the freedom of 2 people. The security guards were doing their job and they had a right to make the call. They were wrong to be rude but they were not wrong to expect the bag be checked or the face uncovered.

So that makes it fair to question anyone different? Alright, due to due people like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson Westboro Baptist's actions and beliefs, as well as the Christian extremist in Norway who killed 80 children, I believe it's fair to question all Christians. Is that fair too? Most would say no. There's a double standard and, no, that is not fair.

 

[Tamar]

He didn't know about that rule. When he was informed, he uncovered his face. If I go into a dojo without knowing that I was supposed to take off my shoes, and the sensei tells me off, did I refuse to abide by the rules? How can I refuse to abide by rules that I don't even know about?

Oh? Then why is it that no one else was asked to give up their bags?

It is discrimination, pure and simple.

Because they came into a mall crowded with people and they wore scarves covering their faces and had back packs.

If anything will set off flags this will.

And it is a bit more then taking off your shoes. People put bombs in back packs. So now there are 2 men with their faces covered carrying back packs in a crowded mall. They are asked to check the back pack and refuse. They are asked to uncover their faces.

I don't think for a minute they did not know they would be questioned.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Because they came into a mall crowded with people and they wore scarves covering their faces and had back packs.

If anything will set off flags this will.

And it is a bit more then taking off your shoes. People put bombs in back packs. So now there are 2 men with their faces covered carrying back packs in a crowded mall. They are asked to check the back pack and refuse. They are asked to uncover their faces.

I don't think for a minute they did not know they would be questioned.

Yes -- on all points.

 

[Nooj]

The world went crazy when Muslim terrorists flew 2 airplanes into the twin towers killing 3000+ people and the extremists have declared war on the west and my country the United States. I live 20 miles from where the plane hit the pentagon and so yes the world has gone crazy.

We live in a time when if you choose to go into a public place with your face covered carrying back packs and refuse to submit to security requests you will face more scrutiny.

Fair? Yes and everyone needs to understand that these security needs will not go away.

This is reality.

The safety of the many outweighs the freedom of 2 people when they have raised suspicions. The security guards were doing their job and they had a right to make the call. They were wrong to be rude but they were not wrong to expect the bag be checked or the face uncovered. They were not wrong to be suspicious.

The security guard isn't the problem. The ignorant bigot who mocked Islam isn't the problem. Bigots will always exist. When I asked if the world was crazy, I was talking about the attitudes directed to the OP in this thread. Where do you get off blaming him for doing the right thing? He complied with the security guard. He also challenged discrimination, as any reasonable person should do.

 

[etherealascension]

We had satchels, not backpacks. Essentially purses for men. This doesn't invalidate your point, but I'd like to point out that it was not a backpack.

And we didn't refuse to let him CHECK our bags. We refused to give them to him. I opened my bag and showed what was inside. But again, security did not question our bags, an employee who had previously made a mocking remark did and he only checked two people, us.