Questions that believers cannot answer

[KWED]

That is correct, that is what those words mean, but the reason your argument falls flat on its face is because you think you can determine what is kind.
What is kind or unkind is only your subjective personal opinion, your ego projection , NOT a fact.

benevolent:
well meaning and kindly. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=benevolent+means

So, you claim that the dictionary definition of "benevolent" is just my opinion, my ego talking.

You then go on to quote that definition of benevolent back at me as some kind of argument to support your position!

I'm done here (again). You simply don't have the capacity for meaningful debate. Sorry.

 

[samtonga43]

“…equality with God a thing to be grasped….”, from the Greek har•pag’•mon, meaning “to grasp (at), seize”; never does it mean to “hold onto.” BIG difference.

Semantics. To grasp is to hold on to. I believe that Christ is the Second Person of the Triune God. He was God incarnate. He was embodied in human form. He ‘emptied Himself’ of His ‘God-ness’ and did not see it as something to be grasped /seized / held on to. This may help…
The triune nature of God explained in four perfect sentences | John Shore

Just like @ Matthew 28:18… He said, “All authority has been given me..”
If he were God, he would have had it, already.

Once again, explained by the nature of Trinity. He was God INCARNATE. The Father gave the authority to the Son.

@KWED , this is part of that “religious confusion” I was talking about; especially noticeable among Christendom’s sects.This was prophesied and expected.

Are JWs considered to be Christian?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, you claim that the dictionary definition of "benevolent" is just my opinion, my ego talking.

You then go on to quote that definition of benevolent back at me as some kind of argument to support your position!

No, I said that the dictionary definition of benevolent is kind, but the reason your argument falls flat on its face is because you think you can determine what is kind.

What is kind or unkind for God to do is only your subjective personal opinion, NOT a fact. In other words, if you think it is unkind that God created a world where people suffer, that is just your personal opinion, it is not a fact, especially if the suffering leads people to be stronger overall and more spiritual.

Likewise, even if there was no God at all, suffering could be beneficial, so if I had a child and made my child suffer doing his homework or eating his vegetables, and that was for his own benefit, I would not be unkind.

I'm done here (again). You simply don't have the capacity for meaningful debate. Sorry.

You can be done if you want to be, that is your choice, but please bear in mind that from my perspective this is not a debate because I am not trying to WIN anything. From my POV, it is just a conversation. Obviously you have no capacity for a conversation, which is an exchange of ideas, because you just keep insisting your position is right and I am wrong. You don't only do that with me, you do it with other believers. You cannot even try to understand another POV or meet people halfway because your goal is not to learn, your goal is to win a debate.

Moreover, I don't think you even want to learn anything about God from believers, you just want to make God into a bad guy. There are not many believers who will even engage in such a conversation, but you got me to engage because I could understand why you might feel that way, given all the suffering in this world, so I can see both sides of the issue.

 

[PearlSeeker]

There would still be the ability to choose how altruistically to act, which of many possible options to take, or even whether to act at all.

You didn't explain how your train station example supports your point. You didn't even ask me to clarify my response, which suggests you didn't really understand it in the first place.

If I understood you correctly there are many options and you still have to use your reason to assess the situation and act accordingly.

But there are situations that are not so urgent and you don't feel like helping or finding help despite you are the only one who can help at the moment.

 

[Trailblazer]

The bits in quote marks are the actual quotes. Those are the words they used.

Even if those words were used, there is no context, no sentences in which the words appear.
I would need the original sources so I can real these in context.

In what text did Baha'u'llah call homosexuality an "evil passion". Cite the source.
In what text did Shoghi Effendi call homosexuality "one of the evils affecting society." Cite the source.

Abdu'l-Baha might have said that said giving in to your "evil passions" makes you no better than an animal, but you cannot fill in the blanks. In what text did he call practicing homosexuals "animals"? Cite the source.

Shoghi Effendi did talk about immorality, and over-emphasis of sex, but he never referred specifically to homosexuality as "one of the evils affecting society"

"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex…'

"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.

'Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty, purity, temperance, decency, and clean-mindedness, involves no less than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress, language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and corrupt inclinations.'

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, a copy of which was sent to the compiler with a letter dated March 8, 1981)

Lights of Guidance/Chastity and Sex Education - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All you are doing here is basically saying "I am right because I believe I am right and have been told I am right".
I believe you are wrong and I'm telling you you are wrong.
Stalemate!

I didn’t say anything like that, lol!

I gave you evidence. Whether you want to examine it, to verify it, is up to you.

Take care, my cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Semantics. To grasp is to hold on to.

Are JWs considered to be Christian?

No, it isn’t. At all. “Harpagmon” can also be rendered ‘to rob’ or ‘seize.’ And it’s definitions, not semantics.


JW’s try to follow Christ — and his commands — closely. He is our Savior. He worshipped his Father, Yahweh (John 20:17)… so do we.

Best wishes.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why did god make them deformed in the first place?

Adam and Eve were Not deformed in the first place.
When Adam broke God's Law which carried with it the death penalty - Genesis 2:17 - that brought sickness to us.
By the soon time of Genesis 3:15 already God promises Messiah (seed) to come.
And the reason why we are all invited to pray to God for Jesus to come (Rev. 22:20) is for 'healing' of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.............If god doesn't like what satan does, why doesn't he stop him? Either god can't stop satan, or he doesn't want to stop satan.

If God stopped Satan and Adam & Eve we simply would Not be here.
God's purpose for mankind was that we all trace back to Adam & Eve - Genesis 1:28
Time has allowed for us to be here and have the same opportunity that was given to Adam before his downfall.
The opportunity for 'everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical Earth' as Eden was a sample.
Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Whose fault is it when a child is born with a congenital condition that means they will dies in great suffering, god or man?

Man. MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's injury, MAN's hurt - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Adam ( man) introduced sin with its repercussions into humanity.
This is why God is sending Jesus to undo all the damage Satan and Adam caused.- Revelation 22:20
Jesus will bring ' healing ' for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The question is - "why was it necessary for god to create a universe with suffering?"

There was No suffering in the Garden of Eden. God created Eden with No suffering in Eden.
Satan and Adam threw a monkey wrench into God's Garden of No suffering.
If you were out working in your beautiful garden and someone came along and interrupted you, would you say that you were never going back to your garden because someone interrupted you __________
Rather, once the interruption was over you would go back to your beautiful garden.
Satan and Adam caused the interruption in God's Garden of Eden.
An interruption that would last for a very long time to settle that interruption.
Satan challenges ALL of us ' touch our flesh.... (loose physical health) and we would turn our backs on God.
Both the man Job (Job 2:4-5) and Jesus under suffering conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
God will answer the prayer to Him for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come to bring ' healing ' (No more suffering) to earth's nations.
Healing to the point that no one will say, " I am sick......" - Isaiah 33:24
Earth and its people will be happy and healthy as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
As originally there was No death (No suffering) in Eden, Jesus will bring an end to 'enemy death' on Earth for us.
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[samtonga43]

“…equality with God a thing to be grasped….”, from the Greek har•pag’•mon, meaning “to grasp (at), seize”; never does it mean to “hold onto.” BIG difference.

Semantics. To grasp is to hold on to.
I believe that Christ is the Second Person of the Triune God. He was God incarnate. He was embodied in human form. He ‘emptied Himself’ of His ‘God-ness’ and did not see it as something to be grasped /seized / held on to. This may help…
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/johns...ne-nature-of-god-explained-in-four-sentences/

Just like @ Matthew 28:18… He said, “All authority has been given me..” If he were God, he would have had it, already.

Once again, explained by the nature of Trinity. He was God INCARNATE. The Father gave the authority to the Son.

@KWED , this is part of that “religious confusion” I was talking about; especially noticeable among Christendom’s sects.

Are JWs considered to be Christian?

 

[YoursTrue]

Nurture, nature, we are products of our environment and our DNA. We are puppets. I'm not so sure free will actually exists.

There are things I'd like to do but now I can't do them. Does that mean I don't have free will? Hmm I don't know ... I think it does to a degree, but what is that degree? I can make a choice of where I will go on vacation. Is that free will?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There are things I'd like to do but now I can't do them. Does that mean I don't have free will? Hmm I don't know ... I think it does to a degree, but what is that degree? I can make a choice of where I will go on vacation. Is that free will?

Hey YoursTrue!

Free will, is simply doing what you want to do; you are not an automaton. Of course, for society to function safely, it must put a restraint on that ability by enacting laws. (For the good of the many.)

But free will can still be exercised, by refusing to obey…. being a criminal, for instance.

And as you mentioned (I think your first sentence indicated), poor health can inhibit our ability to use free will.

But free will is borne (revealed) in our desires, and our thoughts. Even if our body can’t carry it out.

 

[samtonga43]

No, it isn’t. At all. “Harpagmon” can also be rendered ‘to rob’ or ‘seize.’ And it’s definitions, not semantics.

It is more likely, considering the context, to be rendered 'hold on to'. IMO

JW’s try to follow Christ — and his commands — closely. He is our Savior. He worshipped his Father, Yahweh (John 20:17)… so do we.

You consider yourself to be a Christian?

 

[YoursTrue]

Hey YoursTrue!

Free will, is simply doing what you want to do; you are not an automaton. Of course, for society to function safely, it must put a restraint on that ability by enacting laws. (For the good of the many.)

But free will can still be exercised, by refusing to obey…. being a criminal, for instance.

And as you mentioned (I think your first sentence indicated), poor health can inhibit our ability to use free will.

But free will is borne (revealed) in our desires, and our thoughts. Even if our body can’t carry it out.

I'm assuming free will is also partially the use of reasoning ability. There are mentally ill people and there are people more reasonable according to societal or life's norms.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It is more likely, considering the context, to be rendered 'hold on to'. IMO


You consider yourself to be a Christian?

That’s just it…”harpagmon” never means that. It means to “seize”, “rob”, or “grasp violently (for)”.
And the context does show differently: Jesus was “obedient” — whoever heard of God being “obedient”? And after his death & resurrection, Jesus was “given” the name — if he were God, he would have *already* had it.

Definitely. He worshipped / worships his Father, whom he called “the Only True God”, @ John 17:3.
So, that is Who we worship…through faith Jesus’ sacrifice as Savior. As Jesus said in John 14, he is “the way”….to whom?….His Father. Our Father.

I hope you’ll have a good day, my cousin.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The problem remains:

If God is omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient... how could He allow child abuse, terrible diseases... ?

This is a big flaw in Abrahamic theology.

 

[Trailblazer]

The problem remains:

If God is omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient... how could He allow child abuse, terrible diseases... ?

This is a big flaw in Abrahamic theology.

I fully understand your sentiments, but how do you think God could prevent these?
If there is an issue, that issue is that God created a world in which these things take place in the first place, not that God does not prevent them.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I fully understand your sentiments, but how do you think God could prevent these?
If there is an issue, that issue is that God created a world in which these things take place in the first place, not that God does not prevent them.

Some things don't need to take place. Even we (humans) prevent things. We don't just let things happen. If someone wants to hit someone we grab the hand. If I give my kid for example a phone we first have to talk about rules and I have to watch over how is it used and intervene when needed... If my kid is starting to get sick I give medication to prevent worsening...

Yes, bad things can happen. I see this as a necessary evil inherent in the existence of something inferior to God. But there is supposed to be also God who loves us all, is involved in our affairs and able to act in our history.