Questions that believers cannot answer

[Koldo]

Yes .. Almighty God has given us the responsibility of policing ourselves, but has not left us without guidance.
He intervenes as He wills, and He is aware of all things.
He is full of pity for us, but does not love inequities.

The sequel is for those who ward off evil.

Is God going to destroy himself since he doesn't ward off evil?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Is God going to destroy himself since he doesn't ward off evil?

I wouldn't worry about what happens to God..
I would be more concerned on the plight of mankind.

We all have responsibility .. like it or not.

 

[Koldo]

I wouldn't worry about what happens to God..

I am not worried about logically contradictory, and therefore non-existent, things. Should I be worried about a hypocrite deity though?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you mean if you went to the future, it would look inevitable because it happened. That's how it looks to God.

No, that is not what I meant, but it is true.

God knowing it would happen we know doesn't mean that we are not responsible for our actions.

Of course not. There is no logical connection between God knowing the future and our responsibility for our actions.

God is all-knowing, so God knows everything that has ever happened, what is happening now, and what will happen in the future, beginning to end, but what God knows does not cause anything to happen. That does not make any logical sense because knowing something is going to happen is not what causes it to happen. What causes it to happen is when a person makes a choice and acts on it.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

 

[Trailblazer]

Shoghi Effendi said that society influences the individual, and also the individual influences society.

That might be true in general, but my point was that an individual does not have to be influenced by society. An individual can realize that society is morally bankrupt in certain respects and choose not to be influenced.
On the other hand, as part of society, that individual can set an example by rising above the societal norm.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Just what makes you think that *some* things are predestined?
If *some* are, then why not say *all* things are?
If ‘some things’ are predestined, but ‘other things’ aren’t, then what’s your criteria for making the distinction?

How do you explain scriptures such as Psalm 78:40-41 (NASB), they
“grieved Him….Again and again they …pained the Holy One of Israel.”

Or 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord…. is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

Why should He be patient, if people’s actions have been predestined? How could that work?

Maybe it would help if you would rethink your view of God?

And Isaiah’s words about God saying “I create calamity “, was in the present tense, (not “created”) and was in regard to Babylon.

it’s not apologetics; it’s about understanding the context correctly.
All of it. Genesis thru Revelation.
imo.

Best wishes to you!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why should He be patient, if people’s actions have been predestined? How could that work?

It is easy to anthropomorhise G-d.
What does it mean that G-d is a "jealous god"?
Does it mean in the way that a man is jealous of another?

I would say not. It is a way of explaining that we should not take as "a god" for other than G-d, because it is of no avail.

It is a common misunderstanding to assume that something that is "predestined" means that it has been set by some agent, when all it means is that the future is set by SOMETHING .. and God is aware of that future.

This SOMETHING includes the choices that we make of our own freewill.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

God could intervene in a more significant way than sending a messenger though. It is God's choice not to.

Let me use an analogy. Imagine you are walking in the middle of the woods and happen to find a newborn on the ground, with no one else close by. You wait for about an hour, and no one shows up. Rather than picking him up, you walks away towards the closest houses. You find a village a few kilometers away and start knocking on the houses to let people know there is a baby in the middle of the woods. But they don't care. You go back into the woods the next day, the baby is dead. Are you responsible for this death?

You didn't directly put the baby in that situation. But you could have helped in a more meaningful way than being a messenger.

You bring up a thoughtful analogy….
I do not mean to ruin it, but really, anyone in their right mind (which would be most of us, I hope), would take the baby with them.
Why?
Because one thing working for us, is that we were made “in God’s image”; we have the qualities of kindness and compassion (and common sense)!

So, while your point is not lost, there’s more to it than just thinking that “God abandoned us.”

Plus, He left us a Letter, that through its entire context, actually explains why He (aka Jehovah / Yahweh) was going to “be away” for awhile. Almost at the beginning of that Letter (aka Bible), in Genesis 3, it starts to explain what went wrong, and the issues that were raised regarding sovereignty, that needed to be resolved forever, once and for all time.

Through its pages, it also tells us the steps Jehovah has taken, through His Son Jesus, to rectify the matter.

True, although the Bible’s available to almost everyone now, only a minority throughout history have had access to this information. But their lives have not been lost. God promises a Resurrection for both righteous and unrighteous people, all those who’ve ever lived.

There’s been a lot of pain while Jehovah’s stayed out of human affairs… but life is only about 80 years. And then R.I.P.
Some people have gone (are going) through horrible ordeals! Life for them is usually much shorter. But at death, they rest.
Until the promised resurrection, which will occur after the sovereignty issue is fully resolved.
Jehovah has also decreased His control over the planet, letting the Earth’s natural processes & cycles, which He established, continue without His complete aid.

imo.

 

[Koldo]

You bring up a thoughtful analogy….
I do not mean to ruin it, but really, anyone in their right mind (which would be most of us, I hope), would take the baby with them.

Exactly. That's actually the point.

Why?
Because one thing working for us, is that we were made “in God’s image”; we have the qualities of kindness and compassion (and common sense)!

Which he doesn't actually show to possess?

So, while your point is not lost, there’s more to it than just thinking that “God abandoned us.”

Plus, He left us Letter, that through its entire context, actually explains why He (aka Jehovah / Yahweh) was going to “be away” for awhile. Almost at the beginning of that Letter (aka Bible), in Genesis 3, it starts to explain what went wrong, and the issues that were raised regarding sovereignty, that needed to be resolved forever, once and for all time.

Through its pages, it also tells us the steps Jehovah has taken, through His Son Jesus, to rectify the matter.

True, although the Bible’s available to almost everyone now, only a minority throughout history have had access to this information. But their lives have not been lost. God promises a Resurrection for both righteous and unrighteous people, all those who’ve ever lived.

There’s been a lot of pain while Jehovah’s stayed out of human affairs… but life is only about 80 years. And then R.I.P.
Some people have gone (are going) through horrible ordeals! Life for them is usually much shorter. But at death, they rest.
Until the promised resurrection, which will occur after the sovereignty issue is fully resolved.
Jehovah has also decreased His control over the planet, letting the Earth’s natural processes & cycles, which He established, continue without His complete aid.

imo.

So if we leave a letter behind explaining why we left a baby in the woods and if we are able to raise that baby from the dead... it is alright to leave him alone to die in the woods?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Which he doesn't actually show to possess?

What? Is your meaning that ’God doesn’t have kindness & compassion’? Well, if He didn’t, He wouldn’t have provided a Savior, or left a letter detailing His efforts in doing so.
Plus, we have strawberries, blueberries, and spinach ( yes, I love spinach).

So if we leave a letter behind explaining why we left a baby in the woods and if we are able to raise that baby from the dead... it is alright to leave him alone to die in the woods?

Has your life been so bad? Have you ‘felt abandoned’?

I’ve had some rough patches…. even living with a disability… but overall, I enjoy my life.

Just waiting for the ‘Kingdom to come (Matthew 6:9-10)’ & the fulfillment of Revelation 21:3-4!

Best wishes, my cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Questions that believers cannot answer

I think I sufficiently answered the question you posted. I don’t believe in any person’s actions being predestined. (Events, yes. But the person who will carry it out? No. There were some who were moved to carry out God’s will / purpose, such as Cyrus the Great as foretold by Isaiah, but as a rule Jehovah respects our Free Will ability.)
If you have another, I’ll try to answer… ask me.

 

[Koldo]

What? Is your meaning that ’God doesn’t have kindness & compassion’? Well, if He didn’t, He wouldn’t have provided a Savior, or left a letter detailing His efforts in doing so.
Plus, we have strawberries, blueberries, and spinach ( yes, I love spinach).

Then we get back to the analogy.
I truly doubt you would call a human doing what God does a good person. But since it is God... anything goes to preserve God's image, I guess.

Has your life been so bad? Have you ‘felt abandoned’?

I’ve had some rough patches…. even living with a disability… but overall, I enjoy my life.

Just waiting for the ‘Kingdom to come (Matthew 6:9-10)’ & the fulfillment of Revelation 21:3-4!

Best wishes, my cousin.

That's the thing... This is not about me. It never was. We can do better than that.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then we get back to the analogy.
I truly doubt you would call a human doing what God does a good person.

Can you resurrect people? (John 5:28-29)
Can you heal?
What about removing sickness, pain, and death?

You know, you wouldn’t be aware of God’s actions in ancient Israel, if He hadn’t had it recorded.
And this from the God who wants you to love Him? Yes.

Such revelations of His past actions, is called candor….which is a superlative form of honesty.

And serves as a warning for us. Everyone.
Romans 15:4

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I am not worried about logically contradictory, and therefore non-existent, things. Should I be worried about a hypocrite deity though?

I believe the answer to your question is no. I'm not sure what your spiritual beliefs are, but I believe it's critical to learn to stand on your own and care for yourself without overly relying on religious beliefs or a deity to heal you physically or emotionally, or to protect and save you from harm. In my opinion, the sooner you learn this, the better your mental health and emotional well-being will be, as will your life once you learn to care for yourself. It proved true for me, so I believe that it is possible for others once they are free of the indoctrination they have been subjected to during their lives. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need to believe in any gods in order to live a moral life and make the right choices. I've proven to myself that I can stand on my own without genuinely believing in a deity.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Some who suffer more than others are because I f atheist excrement who wants to prove there is no God with how bad they can **** with someone. If it is such then surly the punishment of the tormentor will be utter, and I will be clear UTTER temeprance, with air and fire in my hands.

 

[dybmh]

If you have another, I’ll try to answer… ask me.

I've got one. I haven't read through the thread, maybe this has already been answered.

Most people ask, why do bad things happen to good people. What I want to know is, why do good things happen to bad people. For example, Putin probably has excellent health care, plenty of food, money, luxuries, and might live a long happy life. Why is that?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I've got one. I haven't read through the thread, maybe this has already been answered.

Most people ask, why do bad things happen to good people. What I want to know is, why do good things happen to bad people. For example, Putin probably has excellent health care, plenty of food, money, luxuries, and might live a long happy life. Why is that?

You know, the prophet Habakkuk asked the same question, which Jehovah had recorded in Habakkuk 1:2-4, esp. vs.4.

Why is this a reality (in some places)?
Because Jehovah has allowed the issue of sovereignty, raised in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3), to be settled with a permanency that will ensure the issue will never be given validity again, as it did with A&E.

So to allow the issue to be resolved, Jehovah has stepped away from human endeavors; but He has intervened on behalf of His people, to protect or discipline them from time to time.
But due to the sovereignty controversy, Jehovah has left rebelliously independent humans to their own desires.

The issue of who’s rule is best, human rulership or Jehovah God’s, will never be raised again. Once it has reached complete resolution.

We’ve seen the damage humans can inflict on each other… and now, they’re destroying the earth. But Jehovah foretold that, and will soon step in. (Revelation 11:18)

And soon, Revelation 21:3-4 will be fulfilled, accomplishing what Jesus told his followers to pray for: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth…” Matthew 6:9-10
IMO

And this is for @Trailblazer :

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995121?q="can+predestination+be+reconciled+with+god’s+love"&p=par

I hope this will help you.

 

[Koldo]

Can you resurrect people? (John 5:28-29)
Can you heal?
What about removing sickness, pain, and death?

You know, you wouldn’t be aware of God’s actions in ancient Israel, if He hadn’t had it recorded.
And this from the God who wants you to love Him? Yes.

Such revelations of His past actions, is called candor….which is a superlative form of honesty.

And serves as a warning for us. Everyone.
Romans 15:4

The presumed fact that God can do that... doesn't make it any better. It is actually worse. Spiderman taught us that with great power comes great responsibility, didn't he? Even kids understand this concept.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The presumed fact that God can do that... doesn't make it any better. It is actually worse. Spiderman taught us that with great power comes great responsibility, didn't he? Even kids understand this concept.

Yes, understanding is important, isn’t it?

Tell me, if you had your right to rule, your sovereignty, questioned (other issues were raised, too)… just how would you deal with it? Destroy the rebels? That wouldn’t have answered the challenge.

Jehovah took the wisest course, imo.
It’s required time, but the eventual resolution will be definitive, imo.

But really, what would you do?

 

[Truthseeker]

That might be true in general, but my point was that an individual does not have to be influenced by society. An individual can realize that society is morally bankrupt in certain respects and choose not to be influenced.
On the other hand, as part of society, that individual can set an example by rising above the societal norm.

To some extent as a whole we can win over our envirionment. Not completely. It does influence us to some extent, though to an extent we can gradually win the battle against out corrupt environment.