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found this book a long time ago, and he discusses these ideas, in more modern terminology, with examples from the physics lab to use as a basis to ratiocinate from..... provides another way to look into this terrain.The verse in question =
"For from Him, and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be glory for ever. Amen
Questions =
1. What does all things mean?
2. What is excluded from all things?
3. What does the koine Greek ta panta mean?
Everything that exists. The entire Kosmos, which includes everything that makes us us, as humans, emotions, culture, societies, etc.The verse in question =
"For from Him, and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be glory for ever. Amen
Questions =
1. What does all things mean?
Nothing. All things, is all things.2. What is excluded from all things?
It means "all things", or as this translator added, "Ta panta is generally translated as all things, but it could be equally translated as the all. God's purpose is the all, which intensifies the word all to include everything and exclude nothing. The all starts with God." Ta Panta, the All3. What does the koine Greek ta panta mean?
Just a side note: I wonder if it is by coincidence that the doxology of the Roman Canon of the Mass uses a similar, though not identical, phrase: Per ipsum et cum ipso et in ipso....etc.The verse in question =
"For from Him, and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be glory for ever. Amen
Questions =
1. What does all things mean?
2. What is excluded from all things?
3. What does the koine Greek ta panta mean?
found this book a long time ago, and he discusses these ideas, in more modern terminology, with examples from the physics lab to use as a basis to ratiocinate from..... provides another way to look into this terrain.
and anecdotally:
heraclitus said panta rhei, or "everything flows", which was the basis of his thought process
that since everything flows [not fixed, but mutable] then only process could be said to be "truly real".....
and so on.......makes for interesting exploration, to see what these older schools of thought were working at.
comparative to the modern lines of physics research as a corollary.
View attachment 43501
Everything that exists. The entire Kosmos, which includes everything that makes us us, as humans, emotions, culture, societies, etc.
Nothing. All things, is all things.
It means "all things", or as this translator added, "Ta panta is generally translated as all things, but it could be equally translated as the all. God's purpose is the all, which intensifies the word all to include everything and exclude nothing. The all starts with God." Ta Panta, the All
Why do you ask?
Just a side note: I wonder if it is by coincidence that the doxology of the Roman Canon of the Mass uses a similar, though not identical, phrase: Per ipsum et cum ipso et in ipso....etc.
"Through Him [Christ] and with Him and in Him is to you God the Father Almighty, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all honour and glory, for ever and ever. Amen."
It does look as if this prayer might have been constructed with a deliberate echo of St Paul, adapted to make it specifically refer to the Trinity.
It's a view that essentially says not only did God create all but that He is at least somewhat within all, much like a painting by a Painter. For example, Einstein felt that we can better understand God by studying the universe and all that's in it.
came across this on youtube recentlyMuch thanks for your thoughts. I like that part "everything flows". In essence that is precisely what the sum total of the koine really means, everything flowing from the Source into the Goal.
came across this on youtube recently
your verse Romans 11:36 does not mention redemption. You just smuggled that into it.By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…
your verse Romans 11:36 does not mention redemption. You just smuggled that into it.
I am against all sorts of teachings that say everyone enters heaven (Universal Redemption). It's not biblical, as I see it.
There is no need to "smuggle" the Source, Guide & Goal into anything, He is all of them in entirety.
so now, let's examine where "Jesus" comes from. Citing from wikipedia:That same One has redemption in His middle name, the Lord Iésous, the Master of reconciliation.
It does look as if this prayer might have been constructed with a deliberate echo of St Paul, adapted to make it specifically refer to the Trinity.
I said you've smuggled reconciliation into that verse.
Now you say:
However, Bible does not say that reconciliation is "the source, guide and goal."
so now, let's examine where "Jesus" comes from. Citing from wikipedia:
Jesus (IPA: /ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a masculine given name derived from the name Iēsous (Greek: Ἰησοῦς), the Greek form of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע).[1][2]
[...]
There have been various proposals as to the literal etymological meaning of the name Yəhôšuaʿ (Joshua, Hebrew: יְהוֹשֻׁעַ), including Yahweh/Yehowah saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[3][4][5][6][7]
So no, Jesus does not carry "reconciliation" in His middle name.
In my opinion, Universal Reconciliation means inviting former perpetrators to torment their victims in heaven forever transorming heaven into a hell for their victims. A heaven in fear and torment is not a heaven for the victims, of course.
Universal Reconciliation, as I see it, only makes a case for perpetrators.
In my opinion, Jesus also sees a need safety for earthly victims.
I admire your patience.Hi again Thomas: The focus of this link is the One who is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all. The word ta panta is the strongest word for the extensive reach of our Father Abba in Scripture. He is the Beginning, He is the Ending, the Author of all, the Perfecter of all.
I intend to begin a new link, (as a result of your last comments), where we can discuss what the Restitution of all things entails. I trust to meet you there and address your concerns
Thank you again for your input on this link.
I'm confused here. If they are "former perpetrators", that means they are no longer that now. Haven't all sinned and fallen short? Are you saying it is impossible for some sinners to be reconciled with God?In my opinion, Universal Reconciliation means inviting former perpetrators to torment their victims in heaven forever transorming heaven into a hell for their victims. A heaven in fear and torment is not a heaven for the victims, of course.
If they are still perpetrators, then they are not reconciled, yet. I believe that Universal Reconciliation teaches that all will at some point, be reconciled. Are you saying some shouldn't be? Are you saying some are irreconcilable?Universal Reconciliation, as I see it, only makes a case for perpetrators.
In my opinion, Jesus also sees a need safety for earthly victims.