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Questions regarding Romans 11:36
- Thread starter FineLinen
- Start date
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
found this book a long time ago, and he discusses these ideas, in more modern terminology, with examples from the physics lab to use as a basis to ratiocinate from..... provides another way to look into this terrain.
and anecdotally:
heraclitus said panta rhei, or "everything flows", which was the basis of his thought process
that since everything flows [not fixed, but mutable] then only process could be said to be "truly real".....
and so on.......makes for interesting exploration, to see what these older schools of thought were working at.
comparative to the modern lines of physics research as a corollary.
Everything that exists. The entire Kosmos, which includes everything that makes us us, as humans, emotions, culture, societies, etc.
Nothing. All things, is all things.
It means "all things", or as this translator added, "Ta panta is generally translated as all things, but it could be equally translated as the all. God's purpose is the all, which intensifies the word all to include everything and exclude nothing. The all starts with God." Ta Panta, the All
Why do you ask?
exchemist
Veteran Member
Just a side note: I wonder if it is by coincidence that the doxology of the Roman Canon of the Mass uses a similar, though not identical, phrase: Per ipsum et cum ipso et in ipso....etc.
"Through Him [Christ] and with Him and in Him is to you God the Father Almighty, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all honour and glory, for ever and ever. Amen."
It does look as if this prayer might have been constructed with a deliberate echo of St Paul, adapted to make it specifically refer to the Trinity.
Much thanks for your thoughts. I like that part "everything flows". In essence that is precisely what the sum total of the koine really means, everything flowing from the Source into the Goal.
Wind: Much thanks for your excellent thoughts. We are in agreement, (run for the hills LOL).
The Source, Guide & Goal of the all = ta panta. Nothing is excepted. Everything begins in Him and zero is excluded in the ending from start to finish in Him!
I ask for one simple reason; there are those who think the koine pas does not mean the radical all. The koine ta panta goes in the same vein with that wee "ta" preceeding all.
Net result = the all.
It makes absolute sense to believe the doxology is rooted in ta panta.
It is a difficult task, however, trying to echo St. Paul who speaks in dimensions that are exceedingly above what we can ask or even think.
I appreciate your thoughts very much.
Metis: Thanks you for your post.
The universe is so full of mystery. It would seem to me, (outside of specific revelation by the Father), Einstein beheld the grasp of great landscapes of wonders hidden behind mere pricks of light.
We are beholding the spectacular Painting of all paintings. That Painting will leave us with many new and exciting dimensions of excelling wonder that reaches outside of "somewhat."
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
I like it. Much thanks for bringing it to the link.
By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…
Ex= The Source
Di= The Agent
Eiv= The Goal
The Koine, ta panta, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.
Romans 11:36=
Ta panta “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”
It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “panta” minus "ta".
The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.
The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.
Ex= The Source
Di= The Agent
Eiv= The Goal
The Koine, ta panta, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.
Romans 11:36=
Ta panta “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”
It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “panta” minus "ta".
The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.
The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.
your verse Romans 11:36 does not mention redemption. You just smuggled that into it.
I am against all sorts of teachings that say everyone enters heaven (Universal Redemption). It's not biblical, as I see it.
Thank you for your thoughts Thomas.
There is no need to "smuggle" the Source, Guide & Goal into anything, He is all of them in entirety.
That same One has redemption in His middle name, the Lord Iésous, the Master of reconciliation.
I said you've smuggled reconciliation into that verse.
Now you say:
However, Bible does not say that reconciliation is "the source, guide and goal."
Jesus (IPA: /ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a masculine given name derived from the name Iēsous (Greek: Ἰησοῦς), the Greek form of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע).[1][2]
[...]
There have been various proposals as to the literal etymological meaning of the name Yəhôšuaʿ (Joshua, Hebrew: יְהוֹשֻׁעַ), including Yahweh/Yehowah saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[3][4][5][6][7]
So no, Jesus does not carry "reconciliation" in His middle name.
In my opinion, Universal Reconciliation means inviting former perpetrators to torment their victims in heaven forever transorming heaven into a hell for their victims. A heaven in fear and torment is not a heaven for the victims, of course.
Universal Reconciliation, as I see it, only makes a case for perpetrators.
In my opinion, Jesus also sees a need safety for earthly victims.
Now you say:
However, Bible does not say that reconciliation is "the source, guide and goal."
so now, let's examine where "Jesus" comes from. Citing from wikipedia:
Jesus (IPA: /ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a masculine given name derived from the name Iēsous (Greek: Ἰησοῦς), the Greek form of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע).[1][2]
[...]
There have been various proposals as to the literal etymological meaning of the name Yəhôšuaʿ (Joshua, Hebrew: יְהוֹשֻׁעַ), including Yahweh/Yehowah saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[3][4][5][6][7]
So no, Jesus does not carry "reconciliation" in His middle name.
In my opinion, Universal Reconciliation means inviting former perpetrators to torment their victims in heaven forever transorming heaven into a hell for their victims. A heaven in fear and torment is not a heaven for the victims, of course.
Universal Reconciliation, as I see it, only makes a case for perpetrators.
In my opinion, Jesus also sees a need safety for earthly victims.
The doxology also makes clear that worship is to the Father, not the Son.
Hi again Thomas: The focus of this link is the One who is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all. The word ta panta is the strongest word for the extensive reach of our Father Abba in Scripture. He is the Beginning, He is the Ending, the Author of all, the Perfecter of all.
I intend to begin a new link, (as a result of your last comments), where we can discuss what the Restitution of all things entails. I trust to meet you there and address your concerns
Thank you again for your input on this link.
I intend to begin a new link, (as a result of your last comments), where we can discuss what the Restitution of all things entails. I trust to meet you there and address your concerns
Thank you again for your input on this link.
exchemist
Veteran Member
I admire your patience.
I'm confused here. If they are "former perpetrators", that means they are no longer that now. Haven't all sinned and fallen short? Are you saying it is impossible for some sinners to be reconciled with God?
If they are still perpetrators, then they are not reconciled, yet. I believe that Universal Reconciliation teaches that all will at some point, be reconciled. Are you saying some shouldn't be? Are you saying some are irreconcilable?
BTW, when Jesus said to love your enemies, wouldn't that include perpetrators? Wasn't the example that that's what God does? That he gives gifts from himself upon the just and the unjust?