question to other people about reincarnation and family

[URAVIP2ME]

Islamic Commentators agree Heaven was not here on Earth.
“Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” Qur'an 20:123

Please notice post # 16

 

[Muslim-UK]

I am wondering what are your thoughts about inheriting the ' land ' (earth) SURAH XXI 105; SURAH XXXIX 73-74
I find that Revelation 22:2 is talking about a return to the ' Garden' ( Edenic like paradisical conditions on Earth )
In Genesis we are introduced to the ' tree of life ', and at Revelation 22:2 we read about the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations. Earth's nations being right here on Earth.

21:105 Is talking about the people following righteous Prophets who will inherit the land promised to Abraham pbuh

39:73-74 Is about inheriting the land of Paradise. I saw one translation says 'Earth' but this is not correct. Paradise is 'like' Earth only much better.

The planet Earth along with the Stars will be rolled up and no more. I can't comment on Revelation 22. Is it a direct quote taken from Jesus pbuh?

 

[Milton Platt]

Hello,

I'm currently deeply looking into hinduism and spend time trying to find a positive synthesis between it and my old christianity.

But I'm perplexed by the question of reincarnation viz wanting to be together with my family. I've loved my dad a lot but he died 7 years ago as an atheist. He always followed the common understanding of what a good man is doing with life. But when I still was so impressed inwardly about the fundamentalist understanding of christianity I thought maybe God would condemn my father to hell for his unbelief, or at least didn't let him live in Heaven. So maybe my problems come from this indoctrination.

How do hinduists see that? I'm really not very learned in this religion and have only read some of the Bhagavad Gita, a general introduction to hinduism and listened to songs and mantras and did some prayers. Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

Why don't you start with scientific texts to determine what is actually true and known. From there reject any and all religious texts that do not fully support what is actually known.

 

[sun rise]

By some saying ' finished our time on Earth ' sounds as if they are teaching that Earth is just a stepping stone to another place.
For father Adam, Earth was Not a stepping stone, but was meant to be his eternal or everlasting earthly home.

If you prefer "completed their work of this lifetime" also expresses what I meant to write.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"trablano,"

Namaste,

I will add my Hindu views as much as i can.

But I'm perplexed by the question of reincarnation viz wanting to be together with my family..............
How do hinduists see that?

Well i think the emotional aspect is there with Hindus as well, many people have the longing to be with their loved ones when someone passes away. But in everyday Hinduism the lack of belief in a specific Deva/Devi does not affect a persons Karma and Re-Incarnation, all Atma will be re-born and have to finish their left over Karma not only of this life but all previous lives, plus will have to deal with the consequences of Agami Karma Phalla (consequences of Karma of current life that has not taken fruit yet).

Karma Phall is not a bad thing, this is why the word for "consequences of Karma", is "Phalla" or Fruit - the fruits depend on the seeds planted.

Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

Some Hindus may believe this, but generally the Hindus will consider that the Atman has already taken birth according to Karma Phalla, therefore the idea is if one has passed away we cannot know that "personality", again, but the understanding is that that Atman which inhabited the Body/Mind ect is eternal and is only continuing its journey towards Moksha/Mukti, which many people find solace in.

 

[Katzpur]

But when I still was so impressed inwardly about the fundamentalist understanding of christianity I thought maybe God would condemn my father to hell for his unbelief, or at least didn't let him live in Heaven. So maybe my problems come from this indoctrination.

Just so that you know, not all Christian denominations teach that unbelievers end up spending eternity in Hell. I hope you're not worrying yourself sick, thinking that that's your father's fate. I believe that it's God's desire that families spend eternity together, and that He has a whole lot more patience with us than we have with one another, not to mention an entirely different time-table. The more you understand about the gospel of Jesus Christ, the more you come to realize that endings in mortality really aren't endings at all.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Hello,

I'm currently deeply looking into hinduism and spend time trying to find a positive synthesis between it and my old christianity.

But I'm perplexed by the question of reincarnation viz wanting to be together with my family. I've loved my dad a lot but he died 7 years ago as an atheist. He always followed the common understanding of what a good man is doing with life. But when I still was so impressed inwardly about the fundamentalist understanding of christianity I thought maybe God would condemn my father to hell for his unbelief, or at least didn't let him live in Heaven. So maybe my problems come from this indoctrination.

How do hinduists see that? I'm really not very learned in this religion and have only read some of the Bhagavad Gita, a general introduction to hinduism and listened to songs and mantras and did some prayers. Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

Hindus don't think that what you believe has any effect on where you end up after death. In any case they don't believe anyone is condemned to hell eternally. You may be sent to hell for a short time between lives to atone for any misdeeds, but eventually you will be reborn on earth.

BTW, here is website that has an interesting description of the process of reincarnation : Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Salam,

There is no such thing as reincarnation. Billions of people have died and you would expect Tens of Millions of people to recall past lives, yet we see nothing of the sort. People say, their cousin has links to their grandfather, well I'm sure that's in some small way related to 'genetics'.

Hinduism used as Spiritual uplifting of the mind and combined with yoga is beneficial. I wouldn't recommend opening your Chakras if you have mental health issues though, especially if you aren't under the guidance of a proper tutor.

Peace to you all

Ultimately there is only one underlying spirit associated with all souls, and that is Allah. The spirit of God that moved the 'clay' body named Adam was the first incarnation in the context of Abrahamic religion, and while the subsequent descendants of the first man and woman each experience and identify with the body form as an individual ensouled person, it is the one and same spirit that has differentiated to reincarnate and form the billions of souls over time.
The purpose of reincarnation is to ultimately reach the transcendent realization of what and who one really is, and the prerequisite state of mind for this realization is one free from the karma that is an inherent aspect of a life that mistakes the maya of dualistic perception of reality as ultimate reality.

The goal for all souls, regardless of their present level of understanding, is to transcend the need to reincarnate.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Salam,

There is no such thing as reincarnation. Billions of people have died and you would expect Tens of Millions of people to recall past lives, yet we see nothing of the sort. People say, their cousin has links to their grandfather, well I'm sure that's in some small way related to 'genetics'.

Hinduism used as Spiritual uplifting of the mind and combined with yoga is beneficial. I wouldn't recommend opening your Chakras if you have mental health issues though, especially if you aren't under the guidance of a proper tutor.

Peace to you all

Here are some muslims who believe in reincarnation - Reincarnation in Islam - Ahmed Al-Hassan

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hello,

I'm currently deeply looking into hinduism and spend time trying to find a positive synthesis between it and my old christianity.

But I'm perplexed by the question of reincarnation viz wanting to be together with my family. I've loved my dad a lot but he died 7 years ago as an atheist. He always followed the common understanding of what a good man is doing with life. But when I still was so impressed inwardly about the fundamentalist understanding of christianity I thought maybe God would condemn my father to hell for his unbelief, or at least didn't let him live in Heaven. So maybe my problems come from this indoctrination.

How do hinduists see that? I'm really not very learned in this religion and have only read some of the Bhagavad Gita, a general introduction to hinduism and listened to songs and mantras and did some prayers. Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

People aren't condemned to Hell for unbelief, they are condemned for sin. I do not know where your dad is now, but people must as individuals trust Jesus to be saved.

Reincarnation is nowhere taught in the scriptures. Rather, the Bible says people are assigned one life, and then resurrected for judgment.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Weren't Adam and Eve, peace be upon them, initially in Heaven before they were sent 'down' to Earth to toil for a time?

What I find in Scripture at Genesis 2:7 is that Adam was made (formed) from the dust of the ground.
In other words, angelic invisible creation was created first, then God added to his creation: visible physical creation.
The angels, according to Job 38:6-7 clapped with applause, or shouted with joy, at God's material creation.
Kind of like God expanded the business of creation to first include the invisible heavenly angelic realm, then expanded His creation business to include the visible material/physical realm of existence of which Adam and us are a part.
So, there was No pre-human existence for Adam and Eve.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People aren't condemned to Hell for unbelief, they are condemned for sin. I do not know where your dad is now, but people must as individuals trust Jesus to be saved.
Reincarnation is nowhere taught in the scriptures. Rather, the Bible says people are assigned one life, and then resurrected for judgment.

Jesus had neither unbelief nor sin. At death To me Jesus was Not sent to hell because of unbelief or sin but because everyone who dies goes to ' biblical hell 'meaning the ' temporary grave '- Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10.

I find there are those resurrected for 'adverse' judgement, the rest of the resurrected have a 'righteous' judgement.
Both the just and unjust will have a resurrection according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15, meaning the just and unjust have the possibility of a favorable judgement, whereas it's the wicked who will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7.

The living humble figurative 'sheep' alive on Earth have a favorable righteous judgement at the soon coming ' time of separation ' at Matthew 25:31-33,37. They can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

21:105 Is talking about the people following righteous Prophets who will inherit the land promised to Abraham pbuh
39:73-74 Is about inheriting the land of Paradise. I saw one translation says 'Earth' but this is not correct. Paradise is 'like' Earth only much better.
The planet Earth along with the Stars will be rolled up and no more. I can't comment on Revelation 22. Is it a direct quote taken from Jesus pbuh?

Thank you for your reply as I have been wondering about those verses.
ALL of Revelation, according to Revelation 1:1, is from Jesus who gave it to John to write down for us.

I think then we can agree about the promise that God made to father Abraham: ALL families of Earth will be blessed according to Genesis 12:3, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed according to Genesis 22:18.
Because of Jesus' Revelation to John to me the blessing is healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.

I think along the lines that today's Earth will become much better in that the Genesis ' tree of life ' will be returned to Earth thus allowing Earth to become a beautiful paradisical Earth to become like the sample Garden of Eden for all of earth's nations in connection to Revelation 22:2.

A lot of people ( also inside of Christendom ) also think Earth/stars will be No more, but Jesus taught the humble meek people will inherit the Earth at Matthew 5:5 in reference to Psalms 37:10-11.
What will be gone according to Revelation 11:18 B is those ruining the Earth will be brought to their ruin.
Isaiah 45:18 believed that God created the Earth to be inhabited, Not to be rolled up or destroyed.
King Solomon, known for having wisdom, wrote the Earth abides forever at Ecclesiastes 1:4 B.
So, I find there is nothing wrong with God's creation, but the wrong lies with the wicked.
Kind of like if your dog got fleas, a person does Not get rid of the dog but gets rid of the fleas.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will get rid of those ' fleas ' (wicked people) by the words from his mouth according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16, then Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hindus don't think that what you believe has any effect on where you end up after death. In any case they don't believe anyone is condemned to hell eternally. You may be sent to hell for a short time between lives to atone for any misdeeds, but eventually you will be reborn on earth.
BTW, here is website that has an interesting description of the process of reincarnation : Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

I find the Bible also teaches that No one is in hell eternally.
After everyone in hell is ' delivered up' (resurrected) out of biblical hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.
Dead Jesus was in hell for a short time, parts of three days, before God resurrected Jesus out of hell - Acts 2:27.
Because Jesus had a pre-human existence at his resurrection he went back to the spirit or angelic realm.
Also, since Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach unconscious sleep in death, then while Jesus was dead in hell he was in a sleep-like state according to John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5

 

[soulsurvivor]

I find the Bible also teaches that No one is in hell eternally.
After everyone in hell is ' delivered up' (resurrected) out of biblical hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.
Dead Jesus was in hell for a short time, parts of three days, before God resurrected Jesus out of hell - Acts 2:27.
Because Jesus had a pre-human existence at his resurrection he went back to the spirit or angelic realm.
Also, since Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach unconscious sleep in death, then while Jesus was dead in hell he was in a sleep-like state according to John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5

I may be mistaken, but I understand that most Christians believe that once you are condemned to hell, it is for eternity (at least that is the position of the Catholic Church). The only people resurrected will be those in heaven or purgatory.

But the question of the OP was regarding reincarnation that is described in the web page: Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

 

[Viraja]

Hello,

I'm currently deeply looking into hinduism and spend time trying to find a positive synthesis between it and my old christianity.

But I'm perplexed by the question of reincarnation viz wanting to be together with my family. I've loved my dad a lot but he died 7 years ago as an atheist. He always followed the common understanding of what a good man is doing with life. But when I still was so impressed inwardly about the fundamentalist understanding of christianity I thought maybe God would condemn my father to hell for his unbelief, or at least didn't let him live in Heaven. So maybe my problems come from this indoctrination.

How do hinduists see that? I'm really not very learned in this religion and have only read some of the Bhagavad Gita, a general introduction to hinduism and listened to songs and mantras and did some prayers. Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

Trablano,

I need to tell you a Hindu story -

A priest and a prostitute both died. They were neighbors. While the priest, as his profession suggests, seemingly did a lot of good hailing god's name throughout his life, the prostitute just had done the opposite in her life! Guess who is to be doomed? Priest or prostitute?

When the priest expected to reach heaven, he actually went to hell, and the prostitute attained heaven. You may ask how? The divine duly explained to the priest as follows, "While externally (physically) you served me, your mind was all the time focused on the prostitute, counting her visitors, brooding over what she will be doing next and so forth. Whereas the prostitute, though had numerous sins via her physical body, kept her mind focused on me, all the time! She had no attachment whatsoever over her profession and her mind was dedicated to me, wholly! Therefore, hell for you and heaven for her!".

So, as you can see from the above story, Hinduism does not count on belief and disbelief in the diety. But what matters to reach god, is that someone maintains internal purity, of love, compassion and benevolence, rather than any other form of worship. Hinduism views worship as a means to lead one towards purity of mind, and the purpose of devotion ends just there!

By the way, the god of death 'Yama', plays the role of snatching away lives when it is time, with the rope he carries in his hand and his role is limited in scope. But he is known to be a profoundly benevolent, although hideous deity and a great justice!

 

[trablano]

How is that with my personality? I mean, there is in me a self that feels and enjoys, that weeps and laughs, that loves and does not want to hate, that gifts and is gifted, the god in me as a hindu might say. Is that not the real atman going on? I do not think that we carry the Atman with us like a baggage, and die only to see the baggage live on. Is it not consciousness that is active? I mean, the divine in me is that which experiences, suffers and is happy, dies and lives. When I love someone it is for their personality mostly. The small tame animal in me and them that wants to kiss and be kissed, that dances and sleeps. I really wish that would go on than only a part of me like my foot or my hand or my back or a self misunderstood as a baggage.

 

[arthra]

Can families and friends see each other again after death and can there be forgiveness from Krishna or Yama (I thought he is the god of death in hinduism, right?) after death when they didn't do everything right and didn't believe in God in their earthly lives?

The Baha'i view is that the soul/spirit of your father is in the spiritual world and that you can continue to be close to him...even if he didn't follow a traditional religion and disbelieved it while he was alive.... also the soul of your father can continue to progress through the worlds of God.

Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation.
"In prayer there is a mingling of station, a mingling of condition. Pray for them as they pray for you!

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 96


We Baha'is do not believe the soul incarnates or is"incarnated" in this life... rather the soul is associated with the body as a light can be reflected in a mirror and seen in it but is not physically connected to the body.

I'll provide a reference here from the Baha'i Writings:

"The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 155


"Though death destroy his body, it has no power over his spirit -- this is eternal, everlasting, both birthless and deathless. As to the soul of man after death, it remains in the degree of purity to which it has evolved during life in the physical body, and after it is freed from the body it remains plunged in the ocean of God's Mercy. From the moment the soul leaves the body and arrives in the Heavenly World, its evolution is spiritual, and that evolution is: The approaching unto God."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 65

 

[Vinayaka]

I do not think that we carry the Atman with us like a baggage, and die only to see the baggage live on. Is it not consciousness that is active?

trablani, Hindus would view it the other way around. We (meaning the inner we, atman) carry the physical body, develop the personality anew each time. So We live on.

Just as an explanation, in Hindu talk, there are two personal 'I' and 'we' pronouns, and the self, and the Self. When capitalised, it's referring to the soul, but when not capitalised, it's referring to the outer ego/self. Often this distinction gets really blurred. For example, in the Vedantic statement I AM it is referring to the atman. But this has been distorted by neo-Hindus and others to be a synonym to the ego/self.

 

[DavidFirth]

Why don't you start with scientific texts to determine what is actually true and known. From there reject any and all religious texts that do not fully support what is actually known.

Because too often scientific texts are incomplete and/or just plain wrong. It is a good thing the scientific texts about the earth being flat were cast out in the drought.

Scientific theories change and are replaced. The word of God is never cast out or replaced or changed. Not one jot nor one tittle of the law will perish forever while all of scientific texts will burn in a fervent heat at the end of the age.

Putting one's faith in the wisdom of Man is very unwise.