Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective

[Jedster]

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read in quite some time.

"Next Tuesday Australia will be hit with a massive earthquake."

Tuesday comes and goes with no earthquake

Your prediction was wrong.

"My prediction wasn't wrong, the only thing wrong was the timing."​

Well, this does make sense, however if we take take The West Indian usage of 'next'(see below), meaning 'another', the headline would read <cough>

"Another Tuesday Australia will be hit with a massive earthquake."

So all it is saying that some Tuesday the quake will happen.
Seriously can anyone prove that there won't be an earthquake on some Tuesday?
(Personally I would urge all Ozzies to leave immediately.)


Definitions of next from googling 'next:meaning'


next
/nɛkst/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a time) coming immediately after the time of writing or speaking.
   "we'll go to Corfu next year"
   synonyms: following, succeeding, to come, upcoming
   "we shall turn to this issue in the next chapter"

next
/nɛkst/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a time) coming immediately after the time of writing or speaking.
   "we'll go to Corfu next year"
   synonyms: following, succeeding, to come, upcoming
   "we shall turn to this issue in the next chapter"
   • 
     
     
     
   • 
     
     
2. 2.
   coming immediately after the present one in order, rank, or space.
   "the woman in the next room"
   synonyms: following, succeeding, to come, upcoming More
   
   

adverb

1. 1.
   on the first or soonest occasion after the present; immediately afterwards.
   "he wondered what would happen next"
   synonyms: then, after this/that, following that/this, after, afterwards, after that time, later, at a later time, subsequently, at a subsequent time; More
   
   
2. 2.
   following in the specified order.
   "Jo was the next oldest after Martin"

noun

1. 1.
   the next person or thing.
   "the week after next"

determiner
WEST INDIAN

1. 1.
   another.
   "every year sales down by a next ten per cent again"

 

[Subduction Zone]

You dont need no stinking Miler-Urey to make
organic molecules.

Burn some carbon, and you have organic molecules.

For more one could visit some of the "gas giants"

https://www.google.com/search?q=jup..._AUIDigB&biw=851&bih=489#imgrc=Qt-TN6ki2W2gpM:

This reminds me of when the idea of when the term "organic" was first being used as a buzz word in advertising. There was a shampoo brand that advertised that it was made with "organic chemicals" . The background scenery was of a lovely young laws walking through a meadow. I broke down in laugh, though no one else got the joke.

At least it was truth in advertising.

 

[ecco]

Since prophesy is only ever really understood in hindsight

If prophecy can only be understood in hindsight, then why should any person, especially a religious leader, make prophecies.

The problem is that followers make life-changing decisions based on these prophecies that are, according to you, not understandable.

Nonsense. They were always referring to the same prophesy as I have already made clear....it wasn't that the prophesy was wrong

"Jesus is coming any day now". "Oops, we meant he is coming in 2121."

Here...
Failed date predictions of Jehovah's Witnesses
...is an indepth review, with texts from JW. I read through it. It clearly shows that many things that were predicted did not come to pass.

Perhaps I have difficulty reading. Perhaps you can go to that site and show where the authors got it wrong.

But no one has ever fooled you...or have they? And more than once?
Is a deceived person aware of a deception until it is exposed? Let's wait and see....

Your religions' deceptions have been exposed. By many people, even including ex-JWs.

Yet you continue to be OK with being deceived. You do it by convincing yourself that the facts are not really facts.

 

[Jose Fly]

If prophecy can only be understood in hindsight, then why should any person, especially a religious leader, make prophecies.

Prior to interacting with the JWs here, I didn't have a lot of exposure to people from that religion. But I gotta say, while I find their posts on science to be both fascinating and hilarious, they're nothing compared to their defense of the Jehovah's Witnesses history of failed prophecies. Their approach to this subject is.....well.....I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it for myself.

 

[John53]

Prior to interacting with the JWs here, I didn't have a lot of exposure to people from that religion. But I gotta say, while I find their posts on science to be both fascinating and hilarious, they're nothing compared to their defense of the Jehovah's Witnesses history of failed prophecies. Their approach to this subject is.....well.....I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it for myself.

The lure of immortality will apparently make someone believe and do anything... I can't think of any other reason to be in a doomsday cult.

 

[Jose Fly]

The lure of immortality will apparently make someone believe and do anything... I can't think of any other reason to be in a doomsday cult.

I never realized how doom and gloom their religion is. If you read their posts on "the world", it's all about how terrible and awful everything is. That makes me wonder what their day-to-day lives are like. Do they wake up every morning and say to themselves, "Dang it, I'm still alive and Jesus hasn't returned. Guess I have to slog through this sewer for another day"?

I think maybe the next time a Jehovah's Witness comes to our door, I may ask them about it.

 

[Audie]

The lure of immortality will apparently make someone believe and do anything... I can't think of any other reason to be in a doomsday cult.

Uh, at least without bringing up mental capacity.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The lure of immortality will apparently make someone believe and do anything... I can't think of any other reason to be in a doomsday cult.

Most JW’s don’t expect immortality...the Bible doesn’t promise it for the “sheep”, only Christ’s “brothers”. At Matthew 25:31-45, Jesus mentioned his “sheep” and his “brothers.” Do you know the difference? It’s understanding and explaining truths such as these, and others, that exalt the worship of Jehovah over Christendom’s diverse forms of worship.

Do they wake up every morning and say to themselves, "Dang it, I'm still alive and Jesus hasn't returned. Guess I have to slog through this sewer for another day"?

“still alive”? You manifest a lack of knowledge about what we teach.

And we hope to stay alive, right through this old System’s demise.

Learn our basic tenets, ie., what Jehovah’s Word, teaches... then at least you will have an understanding of what you’re criticizing.

Goes for @Audie , too.

 

[John53]

Most JW’s don’t expect immortality...the Bible doesn’t promise it for the “sheep”, only Christ’s “brothers”. At Matthew 25:31-45, Jesus mentioned his “sheep” and his “brothers.” Do you know the difference? It’s understanding and explaining truths such as these, and others, that exalt the worship of Jehovah over Christendom’s diverse forms of worship.

Ahh yes, JW v1.17b, developed when someone realised the 144,000 storage capacity of heaven was filling quickly and they needed a way to keep the new plebs rolling in.

 

[Deeje]

If prophecy can only be understood in hindsight, then why should any person, especially a religious leader, make prophecies.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my response....the fulfilment of prophesy can only be truly appreciated after it has taken place.

The Bible's prophesies have been clearly seen to have occurred by looking back at what was predicted, and then seeing how accurately they were fulfilled. There are too many accuracies to be flukes.

We have the writings of men who lived thousands of years ago and their words apply in our time like they never could have applied in theirs.

e.g. in the Revelation it says that God will "bring to ruin those who ruin the earth". (Revelation 11:18) At the time that was written, man did not have the ability to ruin the earth, even locally. Only in this "time of the end" have they developed their 'science' to the point where life itself is under threat.

Poisonous chemicals and plastics are choking our planet.
Man-made pollution clogs the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the water we drink. The health implications are obvious. This leads to humans seeking medical help for all their subsequent ailments. Artificial chemical compounds that are manufactured by the ton, become medications which are taken by a major proportion of populations, especially in the West.....but no one seems to understand where all that chemical poison ends up. They are excreted by the humans who take them, and they end up being pumped into the ocean outfalls, poisoning marine life.

But humans are not getting healthy, despite all the medicines they take. They have learned to live with a level of ill health that is managed by endless treatments that make certain corporations very wealthy.

Add to that man's ability to harness the atom (another gift of science) so that we are now capable of ruining the earth and obliterating all life on it. Aren't you proud of man's scientific achievements?

Commercially, things have never exhibited more greed.....religiously we have never seen such hatred and politically the world has never been more unstable.

The problem is that followers make life-changing decisions based on these prophecies that are, according to you, not understandable.

I have never seen any recommendations made by our brothers that would be life altering in any negative way.

There are recommendations of course, based on the principles outlined in the Bible....none of these lead to harm.

We live in a very materialistic world. And it is a biblical recommendation not to chase wealth because it brings its own perils. The desire for money brings out the worst in many people. Theft, envy, dissatisfaction with one's position in life and even murder are spawned by a "love of money". Not to mention the burden of debt that has become a major scourge in the western world.

Chasing a lucrative career is also a product of the desire for wealth, but also the sweet experience that success brings to those who do well in their chosen profession. The trouble with that is what is sacrificed to achieve it and then to maintain it. Family life is often the casualty and success in a career can end up being a lonely achievement. We value family before any of that. A simple life brings the kind of happiness that an over indulged one never could. It's full of emptiness.

The way we live is a reflection of where our heart is. The Bible's prophesies are a reminder that we are all on the same sinking ship. Standing by the lifeboats is not a bad place to be.
This is no time to be upgrading to a better cabin or rearranging the deck chairs. That is how we see things. The end, when it comes, will happen quite rapidly, in much the same way as the events that heralded the beginning of this time period.

1914 was the year the world was plunged into a state from which it has never recovered. Peace was taken away from the world....nearly all the events foretold in the Bible have taken place. Only a very few things remain to be seen.

"Jesus is coming any day now". "Oops, we meant he is coming in 2121."

Here...
Failed date predictions of Jehovah's Witnesses
...is an indepth review, with texts from JW. I read through it. It clearly shows that many things that were predicted did not come to pass.

Perhaps I have difficulty reading. Perhaps you can go to that site and show where the authors got it wrong.

You really think that the muttering of disgruntled ex's and hateful opposers are going to tell the truth? Have you ever been on the receiving end of a disgruntled ex? If you have, then you know what their side of the story will say about you. You will be the villain and they will be the poor victim. Their rantings are pathetic attempts to justify their own defection.

Your religions' deceptions have been exposed. By many people, even including ex-JWs.

Funny how they have never formed themselves into the "right" religion if they think we are so wrong....ever wonder why?

Yet you continue to be OK with being deceived. You do it by convincing yourself that the facts are not really facts.

It seems odd to me that outsiders are more concerned with our view of prophesy than we are. We have always taken a "wait and see" position with prophesy. We live like the world will go on, but we are prepared for it to end, whenever that might be....it won't be a surprise to us because of that. (Matthew 24:42-44) We are ready.....are you?

 

[savagewind]

.

Commercially, things have never exhibited more greed.....religiously we have never seen such hatred and politically the world has never been more unstable.

That is your opinion. You might be right but you also might be wrong.

I have never seen any recommendations made by our brothers that would be life altering in any negative way.

OK. Instead of always depending on the imagination of the members of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses please use your own imagination for a minute. How many Jehovah's Witnesses have there been? Many millions. All of them have been taught that to be any part of the World means to be an enemy of Jehovah. I know you can prove it by Scripture. But, I also know that Jehovah's Witnesses do not know what no part of the world means.

So, consider, please, all the many good works for the protection of the Earth people have accomplished. Think of all the many good works against Evil Commercialism might have been accomplished by all the people who might have been able to but were taken OUT of the System by YOUR governing body. There are JWs who are very intelligent and creative too. Think about it, if you think you are allowed by Jehovah to do so!

 

[Audie]

[QUOTE="Hockeycowboy, post: 5905140, member: 58692"


Learn our basic tenets, ie., what Jehovah’s Word, teaches... then at least you will have an understanding of what you’re criticizing.

Goes for @Audie , too.[/QUOTE]

You completely misunderstand me.

I"ve no particular intetest in criticizing Christianity.
Some aspects of it even have merit. You guys are welcome
to all your divers and conflicting tenets. It is vaguely
funny to observe.

It is too bad for JWs that they choose to be a cult of
ignorance, but, not much can be done about that.

I get it w/o more study that your cult requires of you
to believe in lunacy like your flash frozen mammoths.

I get it that nothing that could possibly be said or done
to shake you from your stupor. Having that power
Is what makes a cult a cult; escaped North Koreans
cannot ever accept that their beloved leader is a
psycho monster, no matter what is put under their
noses.

I'd criticize JW for what it does to people,regardless of
details of "tenets" you'd have me study.

I feel sorry for you, but yiu are far beyond the reach of
any help that could be offered.

I sometimes think that if a cultist were to see even the
tiniest mistake, even just a half truth in some idea,
maybe a shaft of light would prick a neuron in there,
that would say, "what if that is not my only mistake".

But it never happens. The most obvious ignorant
misstatement re science, say, cannot be corrected.

I am sure that in there, somewhere, you know you do not dare
accept that you could be wrong about anything.
You know there is a big and painful epiphany
waiting behind that so-tightly locked door.

You say we should study your cult before
criticizing, but, do you study the science that
you criticize? Here, look at you. No education
in geology, biology, chemistry, physics,
but you know more than all them big scientidts?

Can you look in the mirror and say so in all
clear and honest innocence?

 

[Jose Fly]

“still alive”? You manifest a lack of knowledge about what we teach.

And we hope to stay alive, right through this old System’s demise.

Ok, so you wake up each morning in "the world" with all its terribleness that you Witnesses go on and on about, Jesus hasn't come back and made everything wonderful again, so you tell yourself...........?

From the collective posts of the Witnesses here, I get the impression that while it may not be about still being alive, it's close to what I said, e.g., "Dang, no Jesus and the world still sucks, so I guess I'll slog through this sewer of a place for another day".

 

[Audie]

Ok, so you wake up each morning in "the world" with all its terribleness that you Witnesses go on and on about, Jesus hasn't come back and made everything wonderful again, so you tell yourself...........?

From the collective posts of the Witnesses here, I get the impression that while it may not be about still being alive, it's close to what I said, e.g., "Dang, no Jesus and the world still sucks, so I guess I'll slog through this sewer of a place for another day".

IF there is a god, I'd think he'd be a bit hacked at the
lack of appreciation.

I wonder how anyone managed to come up
with that god is pefect 'n good but everything
he made is bad.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You completely misunderstand me.



I get it w/o more study that your cult requires of you
to believe in lunacy like your flash frozen mammoths.



You say we should study your cult before
criticizing, but, do you study the science that
you criticize? Here, look at you. No education
in geology, biology, chemistry, physics,
but you know more than all them big scientidts?

Can you look in the mirror and say so in all
clear and honest innocence?

@Audie ,

I misunderstand you?

I just did a search of the posts where I either mentioned or quoted the term "flash frozen", in the thread "Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood."

Please note the context...

/////////////////////////

#400 - Hockeycowboy
Furthermore, the fact of animals' being flash-frozen requiring -150 F.... Even if none in this condition were found, -100F or -75F still would be a drastic change! So, any debate there is moot.

Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood[/paste:font]
October 31, 2018 • 954 posts • 9671 views
General Religious Debates
#501 - Hockeycowboy
Ok..flash-frozen requires a temperature of -150F. Does the hypothesis I support -- that the animals died due to sudden, drastic climate changes -- necessitate such a low temperature? Nope.

Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood[/paste:font]
November 10, 2018 • 954 posts • 9671 views
General Religious Debates
#665 - Hockeycowboy
Excerpts from -- Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes -- Sott.net This guy attributes the catastrophe to a meteor impact. I suggest it was the Flood. A meteor would heat the atmosphere up...it would be a BBQ.

Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood[/paste:font]
October 25, 2018 • 954 posts • 9671 views
General Religious Debates
#399 - Hockeycowboy
Somehow the butter daisy seeds morphed into flash-frozen buttercups still in bloom! This appears to be due to some phrasing in a report written by E. V. Pfizenmayer in August 1939 called “Les mammouths de Siberie,” which I have not read ...

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Now, where in this thread did I say I believed the animals were flash-frozen? Quickly frozen, yes. (The evidence for that, is there.)
But since to flash-freeze a huge mammoth apparently requires an extreme sudden temperature drop to -150 F. -- not to -75 F, or even to -100 F......you won't find where I supported such flash-freezing in this thread.

I prefer not to think you purposefully twist my posts...I believe you just haven't read them thoroughly. Or...am I wrong?

I may have said I supported mammoths being flash-frozen in a much older post (due to what some scientists had written), but I've adjusted my view to fit the facts.

Do you adjust your view? Or do you not believe there are millions of somewhat preserved mega grazers in the Arctic and sub-Arctic, that were suddenly killed?

What does the evidence show?

And about not being educated in science....you don't know me! Would you say the same about Wells, Meyer, Axe, Behe, etc.?

 

[Audie]

There is some relevant quote about
protesting too much.

As for uneducated, you JWs do make it a
point of pride, and, you do put it on
display.

 

[John53]

I feel sorry for you, but yiu are far beyond the reach of
any help that could be offered.

There's always hope, I watched a video of ex JW's explaining how they escaped the cult mentality. It was often something simple, one who had been raised as a JW said as a child he could never work out why it was OK for him to go door to door and hand out their literature but it wasn't OK for him to accept literature from other religions that came to his door.

Another looked into the money trail and didn't like the system. It's actually a brilliant system if you want to get rich, lack a conscience and can find enough gullible people. You get people to give you money and when they need money you loan it back to them and charge interest. Someone somewhere is making a killing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Another looked into the money trail and didn't like the system. It's actually a brilliant system if you want to get rich, lack a conscience and can find enough gullible people.

Really? Well, I must be missing something then. (Especially since I have some authority in the congregation.) Please inform me!

You get people to give you money and when they need money you loan it back to them and charge interest. Someone somewhere is making a killing.

Naw, that's not it. No interest charged, just caring for each other.
Our literature has no price...
No paid clergy...
No charge to use the Kingdom Hall, even for weddings or funerals...
All brothers offer services officiating at such events for free...
There's no tithing...
No collection plates are passed around...

Nope, it's not about money. It's teaching people about Jehovah and His Son, and what they want.

 

[savagewind]

Really? Well, I must be missing something then. (Especially since I have some authority in the congregation.) Please inform me!



Naw, that's not it. No interest charged, just caring for each other.
Our literature has no price...
No paid clergy...
No charge to use the Kingdom Hall, even for weddings or funerals...
All brothers offer services officiating at such events for free...
There's no tithing...
No collection plates are passed around...

Nope, it's not about money. It's teaching people about Jehovah and His Son, and what they want.

I don't think the post was about the people. It was about the governing body's system. I can't be sure that they charge the congregations interest, but you should know!

 

[John53]

Really? Well, I must be missing something then. (Especially since I have some authority in the congregation.) Please inform me!



Naw, that's not it. No interest charged, just caring for each other.
Our literature has no price...
No paid clergy...
No charge to use the Kingdom Hall, even for weddings or funerals...
All brothers offer services officiating at such events for free...
There's no tithing...
No collection plates are passed around...

Nope, it's not about money. It's teaching people about Jehovah and His Son, and what they want.

And you think the literature and Kingdom Halls magical appear with no cost? Google the money trail maybe it will be the truth you need to see....