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Featured Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Skwim, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    [​IMG]

    8%. A telling demonstration of the major misinformation indoctrination that goes on within the JW faith, which is no doubt abetted by their lack of higher education. Almost a fifth of their members never graduated from high school, the poorest showing of all the listed denominations.

    [​IMG]

    Then there's this:

    "JWs maintain that the Bible is consistent with modern science, except the entire field of evolutionary biology and parts of geology and archaeology, which are wrong because of the influence of Satan, pagan philosophy and depraved Christian clergy."
    source

    One has to wonder why Satan picked on the entire field of evolutionary biology and parts of geology and archaeology to mislead those living in the last few 160 years, particularly when one considers its poor showing---only 33% of adults believe humans existed in their present form from the beginning.* One would think he would have picked a more profitable enterprise with which to mislead humans. Of course Satan, pagan philosophy, and a depraved Christian clergy have nothing to do with the dissemination of evolution, the basis of the JW ire, but the simple fact that JWs can't sell their literal reading of the Bible without using them to demonize its enemy, evolution. Evolutionary biology and those fields of science that support it aren't just wrong, but carry the heinous marks of the devil, paganism, and depravity. "Therefore dear JW member, don't even go near evolutionary writings lest ye be pulled away from your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and fall into lie filled pit of deception."

    So, other than the 8% who know better, JWs come away with all the distorted talking points against evolution, but without the ability to back them up. Not that this comes as any surprise, but wouldn't it be nice if someone from the 8% came on board and stood up to the other 92%. However, I'm afraid it won't happen. The JWs are well known for their intolerance of competing ideas being circulated among members.


    *source

    .
     
    #1 Skwim, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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  3. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Graphs like these remind me of the saying that when you consider how dumb the average guy is, remember that by definition, half of them are even dumber than THAT.
     
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  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Honestly, I've never heard the word Creationism in my country.
    Don't forget Darwin was a European, not an American
     
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  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Got the feeling you had more to say there, please continue
     
  6. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    According to the Daily Mail, the JWs may be correct

    All humans are descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago, scientists claim
    • Genetic 'bar codes' of five million animals from different species were surveyed
    • The research deduced that humans and animals sprang from single pair
    • This happened after a catastrophic event a long time after the last ice age
    Every person was spawned from single pair of adults living up to 200,000 years ago, scientists claim | Daily Mail Online

     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling Well-Known Member

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    Atheists don't tend to think much about the stuff they believe, do they?

    I find it extremely difficult to believe that as much as 8% of active JW's in good standing believe in the nonsensical theory of evolution. The source of the quote you used on JW's and Satan isn't sourced itself and highly suspect. I've read JW literature going back to 1955 and can't recall anything like that being said.

    The JW's are a worldwide organization with many members living in countries where education isn't available. Of all of the JW's I've known here in the U.S. only one has not had a high school graduation.

    As for higher education, if 12 years wasn't enough for you to indoctrinate the masses before they became college students you might want to forgo the effort and read English professor at Emory, Mark Bauerlein's The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30) which discusses "the progressive dumbification of the college curriculum."

    Instead, take the course . . .

    Harry Potter: Finding Your Patronus

    Oregon State University
    $237.17 in-state; $681.17 out-of-state (based on 15 credits/semester)
    Enrollment: N/A
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    I'm not surprised that many of them agree with me.
    I've a couple JW friends, & they seem sharp.
     
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  9. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    You've got it backwards. It's the theist who is ready to believe without sufficient evidentiary support, that is, not think much about what they believe.

    Most atheists, by contrast, are also rational skeptics - people convinced that nothing should be believed that isn't supported by evidence and sound argument, including claims of supernaturalism, god beliefs, and the divinity of scripture, and that the degree of belief should be commensurate with the quality and quantity of the available evidence, as well as amenable to revision if new evidence suggests that our tentative findings are more or less likely to be correct in the light of the new findings.

    Contrast that with the manner of thinking of the faith-based thinker. Unlike the rational skeptic, the only reason the faith-based thinker needs to believe something is either that he wants it to be true, or that he absorbs what he is told uncritically. Who's the one not thinking there?

    If they were to think critically about such matters, which is unlikely after a lifetime of willingness to skip that step and just believe what they are told - critical thinking is a learned skill requiring years of practice as when studying science - they would experience cognitive dissonance and need a dose of creationist apologetics to seal the breach in the faith-based confirmation bias. They would need something to reassure them that the scientists are wrong - perhaps a nice special pleading fallacy (everything needs a cause except my god), an incredulity fallacy (it all seems too complex or pretty to have arisen without a designer), or a linguistic slight of hand (if the universe has laws and design, it needs a lawgiver and designer), or the ever popular claim that micro- and macroevolution are qualitatively different things, the latter never occurring due to some imagined but never demonstrated barrier between "kinds," whatever those are.

    None of that is good thinking. Expect the atheist to do better, especially if educated in a rigorous discipline like the sciences, mathematics, engineering, philosophy, or medicine.

    The theory is correct, and it's here to stay.

    Let me ask you a question that I have asked multiple theists waging war against evolution on these threads. Why we would trade in a theory that unifies mountains of data from a multitude of sources, accurately makes predictions about what can and cannot be found in nature, provides a rational mechanism for evolution consistent with the known actions of nature, accounts for both the commonality of all life as well as biodiversity, and has had practical applications that have improved the human condition in areas like medicine and agriculture for an idea like creationism that can do none of that?

    Since without exception, every evolution denier, all of which I presume are creationists - what is the alternative to naturalistic ideas like abiogenesis and Darwinian evolution other than supernaturalistic ones? - every evolution denier has deflected from the question or disregarded it altogether.

    You seem to be an avid and ardent anti-evolution warrior. Maybe you'd like to take a stab at that question. Why should we abandon an idea that is as successful as Darwin's theory, and which pedigree includes being a product of a method of inquiry about the world, the brilliant success of which has made life longer, healthier, safer, easier, and more comfortable in exchange for sterile ideas like creationism which, even if true, are useless?

    I'll give you my answer first. We wouldn't. We won't. Perhaps you can explain why that is a wrong choice and what makes you refer to evolutionary science as nonsensical.
     
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  10. Earthling

    Earthling Well-Known Member

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    Hold on, are you saying that, like I described them, namely active JWs in good standing agree with you on the subject of Evolution? An ex-JW will latch on to evolution like it's a life preserver, but I'm talking about active JW's in good standing.
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    8% of the active ones agree with me according to the OP.
    (I'm shooting for 10%.)
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Nah, just a typo. Sorry to get your hopes up. ;)

    .
     
    #12 Skwim, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  13. Earthling

    Earthling Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's put it this way, if they believe in evolution they do so quietly, because to do so publicly would get them disfellowshiped. So, that means 8 - 10% of the JW's are not, in effect, JW's. They are JW reformists or inactive, or not in good standing, at least they wouldn't be in good standing if their true beliefs regarding evolution were known. If, what the OP, you and the poll says is anywhere near accurate. Now, I know that there are many JW's of their, what 6 or 7 million now, is it? that are only JW's because they don't want to be shunned by their family, and there are probably many young JW's who are not JW's by their own choice, but the numbers we are talking about seem far fetched to me. I would be surprised if you know more JW's than I have and I just don't see it.

    Not that I wouldn't be able to admit it, or I have a personal stake in the matter, I just don't see it.
     
  14. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    This will probably disappear soon, but I can't resist...

    What do you call 8-10% of JW's who are not, in effect, JW's?

    A good start.
     
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  15. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    I won't believe it until there is corroborating evidence in the National Enquirer and the New York Post.
     
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  16. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    I also kinda wonder who these 8% are, given how any "evolutionist" within the JWs will be disfellowshipped (i.e., kicked out of the faith and shunned by JW friends and family).

    I guess maybe they just keep their views to themselves, until the right survey comes along?

    Also, don't anyone dare suggest that being a Jehovah's Witness plays any role at all in shaping their views on evolution. I made that suggestion to @nPeace and he absolutely wigged out, ran away, and put me on ignore. Apparently it's something they just don't want to talk about.
     
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  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    If a JW says that they are a JW & that they accept the TOE,
    then I accept this as true. As for the JWs I know, I don't recall
    their individual positions on evolution. But 8% doesn't surprise.
     
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  18. Earthling

    Earthling Well-Known Member

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    And you think that belief in the crackpot theory of evolution wouldn't be a part of their equivalent to a TOE? You can't be a practicing homosexual and a JW. You can't be a believer in evolution and be a JW.
     
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  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    Equivalent, I'd say.
    8% of JWs would disagree with you (according the OP).
     
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  20. Earthling

    Earthling Well-Known Member

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    And I don't believe it. Not very well thought out.
     
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