History (verifiable facts) vs opinion (today).Tradition Vs Objectively verifiable facts.
In my opinion.
I agree.
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History (verifiable facts) vs opinion (today).Tradition Vs Objectively verifiable facts.
In my opinion.
I have some historical events we can all see but if I present them you will find some reason not to see them...Did you read the OP? Neither of them are right, they both don't pay proper attention to all context.
Because the Bible is like computer code in some places, intertextually linking to show that the answers are confirmed by historical events, and things we can all see.
Are you actually saying that Christians and Jews do not have biases?Trailblazer said: I am sure you are well aware of the fact that Christians do not interpret the same scriptures you are reading the same way Jews interpret them.
Wizanda said: This is because most people have some personal biases to serve.... Especially Bahais who seem to make everything fit with their own religious expectations of prophetic events.
I read those verses and I see no place where it says that there will no longer be death.Trailblazer said: In the messianic age everyone will know, but at what time during the messianic age will everyone know? Are there any scriptures that specify the exact time?
wizanda said: The Messianic Age is literally a new reality, where there is no longer death, lions will eat straw, wolfs will lie with the lamb (Isaiah 65:17-25).
You said the scriptures are specific. Where in the scriptures does it say that the Messiah will be the one who creates world peace?Unfortunately and sorry to say this, as i've got respect for Baha'ullah's efforts at trying to create world peace; yet he wasn't the things he claimed, as these things have not taken place, and the scriptures are specific in multiple places.
What do you mean by throne, a physical throne with God sitting on it? What scriptures do you have that say this? I am all about the evidence.As just replied to Rival, the temple is the throne of God come down here from Heaven... Not something built with human hands.
What do you mean by Tribes? Sorry, I am not well versed in the Bible.The Israelite Tribes will be reunited under the Messiah King.
This is repeated in multiple places:
Isaiah 11:12, Jeremiah 23:3, Jeremiah 23:8, Jeremiah 31:8, Ezekiel 28:25, Ezekiel 11:17, Zechariah 10:6-12, Psalms 147:2, etc...
Tho read the whole of Ezekiel 34, as that specifically explains the Messiahs arrival, and gathering of all the Tribes.
Trailblazer said: Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
wizanda said: This is because they've followed the fake texts of John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros); thus have been told the Messiah already came, when Yeshua himself said it is to be a future event at the coming of the Messianic Age, and not before it.
So because Jesus did none of these things you can say that Jesus is not the Messiah, but as you must know, Christians claim that Jesus will do these things when He returns.Because Jesus did none of these things. There are chapters of Ezichiel dedicated to the Temple construction. In Ezichiel 37: 21-22 we have the prophecy of the tribes being united under a Davidic King (moshiach).
But where do the scriptures actually say everyone will know from the start of the Messianic Age?From the start of the messianic age everyone shall know because that is the point of the messianic age. The messiah ushers in the messianic age wherein all these things shall happen. As the messiah will only live for as long as everyone else then all these things must happen within a human lifetime.
John being a trustworthy Gospel when it was in Greek, then Latin, and limited to only Elites ever reading it... Is not a Verifiable fact; we've only had the Bible to read in the last few hundred years.History (verifiable facts) vs opinion (today).
I'm willing to look at any argument, and will test it all pragmatically.I have some historical events we can all see but if I present them you will find some reason not to see them...
Nope was saying everyone has personal biases... Yet i've not got any of your religious presuppositions, and thus am trying to rationally understand what the text says, not what i want it to fit with.Are you actually saying that Christians and Jews do not have biases?
I agree with this statement, based on we can show that Isaiah 52:10 says Yeshaut Eloheinu is the Servant who appears as the son of man.... Plus almost all the contexts in Isaiah 53 don't make sense being Israel.such as Isaiah 53 being about Israel when it is clearly about the Messiah.
On its own no, yet when we take into account that in Zoroastrian, Hindu, Islamic text, Isaiah 25:8, Daniel 12:2, Ezekiel 37:12-14, Isaiah 26:19, Revelation 21:4 say the same that death is to be removed...Do you believe that this has a literal interpretation such that lions will eat straw and wolfs will lie with the lamb?
Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.Where in the scriptures does it say that the Messiah will be the one who creates world peace?
The timeline is the Messiah comes just before the Battle of Armageddon, our world is ruined, and God steps in to recreate it....Thus it is God who brings the world peace, the Messiah just ushers it in.I asked you if there are any scriptures that specify the exact time.
Revelation 20:11-12 I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. (12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.What do you mean by throne, a physical throne with God sitting on it?
There were 12 tribes of Israel; which means the 12 sons of Jacob created whole tribes, which created nations.What do you mean by Tribes?
Actually i've found a very precise case, and will often dismiss all the shoddy work by many... Like for example every part of Zechariah 11 is to the letter.That is so obvious, because we know every detail of the OT that refers to Jesus did not happen exactly as written but rather there is a lot of symbolism.
Yeshua said he was the Messiah, just that the time for the Messiah is to come in the Messianic age.I believe that Jesus was a Messenger of God (Prophet) that came to prepare the way for the Messiah, but He never claimed to be “the Messiah”
I follow Oneness, there is only One God, all religions are One.So what do you follow?
It is in chapters of Ezekiel 40-47... Yet it doesn't say about being built, it says about the dimensions as if it already exists, and as an example of what could be.Does it actually talk about a physical temple being constructed, a building?
Like most of your questions would be answered on reading them properly; especially the prophets, Gospels, Revelation.Where in the scriptures does it say
There is nothing about moshiach having to return to accomplish his job a second time. That's a total Christian idea. That has nothing to do with Jewish thought.So because Jesus did none of these things you can say that Jesus is not the Messiah, but as you must know, Christians claim that Jesus will do these things when He returns.
Yes, a physical Temple. From chapter 40 pretty much to the end of the book.I do not known what chapters of Ezekiel you are referring to. Does it actually talk about a physical temple being constructed, a building?
Jeremiah 31:34But where do the scriptures actually say everyone will know from the start of the Messianic Age?
Why do you think all the events of the Messianic Age will happen within the lifetime of the Messiah?
Do you believe that the Messianic Age refers to the age during which the Messiah is alive on earth and then after that there will be nothing left to do?
Do you think that the Messiah himself will singlehandedly accomplish these tasks with no help from other humans? How is that even possible? I mean how could a permanent world peace be established without the cooperation of world leaders and governments?
The way I see it, if the Messiah is just a man and not a God, there is no way He alone could accomplish all of this (I have the list from some Jewish posters on another forum) within his lifetime. Moreover, humans do not change that fast; history proves that drastic changes such as these evolve over time. That is why it is called the “Messianic Age.”
Where in the scriptures does it even say that the Messiah would do any of these things himself?
Where in the scriptures does it say that these things will all happen within the lifetime of the Messiah?
Daniel 12:11-12 “From the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there will be one thousand two hundred ninety days. (12) Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred thirty-five days.There is nothing about Messiah having to return to accomplish his job a second time.
Sorry don't understand the question or why we would want to be concise by Jewish Scholars; Zechariah 12:4 and Isaiah 29:9-14 says they've been confounded on purpose.To be concise with jewish schoolars, one question - Who work at the city hall in Jerusalem?
You've stumped both Wiz and me. Good one.To be concise with jewish schoolars, one question - Who work at the city hall in Jerusalem?
Brought peace??Why do you put my fellow brothers in Christ under darkness... who brought peace to the earth??
Paul, John and Simon led people into darkness, claiming it was light... Whereas I'm trying to redirect people back towards the light.Why do you put my fellow brothers in Christ under darkness...
Yeshua came to bring division and a sword (Matthew 10:34)... John, Paul, and Simon said he brought peace, which is utter rubbish, as soon after the 2nd temple was destroyed horrifically (Luke 19:41-44).who brought peace to the earth??
Daniel 9:27 He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, wrath shall be poured out on the desolate.Brought peace??
Where?
I don't use a T.V.Throw out the tv and live with it... and for the money, who gave christians everything... Milton or Jesus???
I give up.Peace on earth, an everlasting peace!!!
why can't military fabrics fabricate weapons other then hunting rifles and soft airguns??? why do police officers use bullets out of gum, rubber and plastics???
Also not had a Tell-Lies-Vision for at least 13 years since canceling my TV license; since they insisted on a reason for canceling, told them "it was full of propaganda, and didn't need to be made to feel on a roller-coaster".I don't use a T.V.
who gave christians everything... Milton or Jesus???