Proof of Islam?

[Trailblazer]

Did Baha'Ullah create scripture like the Qur'an? The "Book Bringing" Prophets are considered different by Muslims who like categorizing things. Even I'm a messenger of Allah though. I deal with people all around the world and help them with their spiritual issues and spread the messages of Allah and goodness.

In the Baha’i Reference Library online are The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

There are many more Writings that have not yet been translated into English. I have heard that only about 15% if Baha'u'llah's Tablets have thus far been translated into English.

We who believe in the Messengers of God are 'messengers' for the Messengers.

 

[Duncan]

And We put coverings over their hearts lest they should understand the Quran, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Quran, they turn on their backs, fleeing from the Truth. 17:46




And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. Romans 15:8.

His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?". He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable". Thomas 53.



Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. Habbakkuk 2:16

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. Romans 2:28

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16



And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of your evil doings. Jeremiah 4:4


At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. Joshua 5:2

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Romans 2:25

And I would to that the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, include advice about actions that are part of a natural way to maintain personal hygiene. He said that, “Five things are part of the fitrah: shaving the pubic hair, circumcision, trimming the moustache, plucking the armpit hairs, and cutting the nails”.This is believed to be the ancient way, the natural way, followed by all of the Prophets, and enjoined on the believers by the laws that they brought.

One must probably ask what Fitrah is, basically Muslims believe that all of humankind is born innately knowing that God is One. It is a natural state of being where one instinctively knows that there is a Creator and our natural way of life is to worship Him and please Him. The Arabic word for this state of being is fitrah and linguistically it means causing a thing to exist for the first time, in its most pure and natural condition. Prophet Muhammad said that every child was born in a state of fitrah, with the correct understanding of God.

The majority of Islamic scholars agree that circumcision is obligatory for men providing they do not fear that it may harm them. Circumcision makes it easier to keep the penis clean from traces of urine, dirt, or impurities and it involves cutting the foreskin covering the glans. It does not involve flaying the skin or part of the penis, in fact to do so would be causing deliberate harm and thus be against the teachings of Islam.

Plus it has a great benefits medically proven such as Protection against cancer of the penis, Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) and more but we are not here to talk about circumcision I guess

 

[Duncan]

That's funny but the point was "no choice"

I don`t agree. every individual has the choice to follow his or her own path. I know people born in Muslim,Christian,Jewish family but they don`t believe, some call themselves Atheist... It does not mean that you are born in Muslim family means you are automatically a Muslim, you have no choice but to accept.The Quran decrees that every individual is free to choose his own course of life in social, economic and political spheres. Further, the Quran stops its followers from challenging another person’s freedom of choice.

The first major theme that unambiguously appears repeatedly is that God is the ultimate judge of all human action and everyone will be accountable to God alone. The three other themes are the limitations on the role of the Prophet peace be upon him in enforcing faith, individuals’ ownership of their actions, and humans’ freedom of choice in respect of their actions and beliefs. Let me share with you the final and last-to-be revealed verse of the Quran. This last direct message of God sums up all the main themes and puts a seal on the Quran: ‘And be conscious of the Day on which you shall be brought back unto God, whereupon every human being shall be repaid in full for what he has earned, and none shall be wronged’ (2:281).

God’s command is quite clear. Each person is free to choose and is responsible for his own conduct in life. There will be a judgement day, a responsibility which is God’s alone as the ultimate judge. Therefore, coercion is prohibited in this life, and no one has a right to force others to choose how they conduct their life.

The Quran is most emphatic about each person’s freedom to choose their own course of life. In fact this choice has been described as God’s will. The following verse shows clearly how God’s will acts. It acts through human action and the choices human persons make. According to the Quran it is God’s will for humans to hold divergent views (2:253): And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those [apostles] would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but [as it was,] they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another: but God does whatever He wills.

This is repeated in 16:93 And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do.

Such freedom of choice is also explicitly given in the following verses: 5:54, 6:104,10:40, 10:41, 17:105–108, 26:4, 28:56 and 39:41.

Finally I would like to finish with that verse in the Quran 18:29, God says ‘And say: The truth [has now come] from your Sustainer: let then him who will, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it.’

So everyone has a choice

 

[Duncan]

Dang! You know so much about these people! Wow! I've had 0 interest in them so never would have been able to commit to studying them even for a fraction of what you were able to put yourself through! How did you do so and manage? I find myself unable or very unwilling to force myself to read practically anything I have no interest in whatsoever. I can read tons about things I'm interested in but when reading stuff I have no interest in, it feels tedious, fruitless. Now what gives me the impression when reading something I am interested in, is an extra thought "I can use this in some way maybe, I'll be able to use this thing for my imagination, writing, practice", and not everything is equal for how it stimulates or interests me. I feel that you or other people may be functioning differently? Like how could someone possibly invest so much time and effort into studying something they have no interest in? Just because of the one guy from Israel? Or what motivated it? I'd be motivated by girls, to master something in order to extract them from it, though it might be hard. Like, I doubt girls could sufficiently motivate me to learm computer programming, even if they were working topless all together at their computers. I'd probably just be the creepy janitor peering over my mythology book while on break checking out their breasts resting on their station keyboards. Its a desperate state, but my laziness and finding the easiest way to get "just enough" leads to my settling for things. I can't imagine what would be able to motivate me to pursue something I have no interest in at all, if not a maiden, if not an immediate threat or necessity somehow, if having nothing to do with my survival or increases comfort, if the group has nothing I need or want and I don't even regularly interact or find them, and the words have nothing of interest to me, how could I dedicate so much time to something which isn't pleasurable? Like putting myself through hell.

Trailblazer finds aspects of the Bahai writings enjoyable. When they read the Qur'an at www.islamawakened.com/quran they will either find it as despicable and tedious as I find the Biblical scriptures, or they will enjoy it, and if its something in between or neither, how could they or what would their driving motivation be to even pursue it?

Why do I intricately study the Bible?

Because there are a huge amount of Christians that I can manipulate and control by being knowledgeable of the scriptures, because I can dawn a Christiany guise or costume, whereas dawning a Bahai one is simple enough with my knowledge of Islam and the Qur'an generally and the infrequency of ever even encountering them in any engaging fashion or one which warrants heroic efforts to rescue them, as they seem to be elderly people, all I can suggest is their trying their hand at the Qur'an before they cross their arms and are put away in the Earth.

Not only that, but the Bible contains a lot of things which can be used and have been used by various Occultists, Jewish, Christian, Gnostic, even Demoniacs. It also gives clues and references to certain Ancient semitic things hidden throughout the text including numerous hidden names and entities, like Tehom for example, Sapan, numerous others, many of which are little known or unknown divine epithets.

So even though I consider the Bible almost pure filth, it has some benefits in its careful study, and helps me to relate to and interact with certain populations which are widespread.

I don't get along one bit with most "witches" though, basically because they are crazy people, and have so given in to illogical craziness and made up stuff, while being almost belligerently illiterate due to feeling they have always had to fight for their imbecilic freedom from their Christian parents and upbringing and friends scoffing, and the heady power of acting like a cult leader or knowledgeable towards people who know even less than they do, which is very little, that they are motivated only so far to continue to follow their fantasies. Why they interest me is if they are attractive, and regardless, possibly due to their use and overall misuse of religions and religious terminology and ideas, since they are frequently the new polytheist anthropomorphic literalists whose clothes I'm hoping fall off.

My driving point behind these comments is human animalism, human psychology, human motivation, human pursuit, human tastes.

Well brother I studied religion, the main one was Christianity, Judaism, Islam, I also studied Buddhism and Hinduism, also the studies of the Scriptures of the OT and NT in Hebrew, Greek, Arabic. I was like you I never heard of Bahaïsme before until I met someone who practice it. You see in order to have a discussion with someone who has different belief than you, you have to know every detail about what he believe in, and I mean authentic details not crap that people tells you. I noticed that most of the people I talk to follow their religion blindly, they have no idea of the origin of their belief, for exemple the guy who gave me the books about Bahaisme was christian before then met that cut Iranian girl who introduced him into it and became heavily involved into spreading it, but when I talk to him about it he has a lot of :euuuh, hmmmmm, I will look into it for you.....? doubts and lack of knowledge, one thing is sure if that lady told him him jump from the bridge he will probably do it

I love languages and religion, I have been studying Japanese for now 3 years, your love and interest for any subject will make it easy for you to learn it, another way is reading, you accumulate so much knowledge and still I consider myself ignorant hungry of knowledge. But we are here to learn from each other

 

[Aupmanyav]

If they were covenant breakers they deserved to be ousted and they needed to be ousted.
That is not a reflection on His character.

I don't think so. He should have let them remain in the community rather than throw them out. He should have persisted with them. That would have been magnanimity befitting his supposed station.

Perhaps you remember the story of a monk and the scorpion. The scorpion bit the monk. The monk carefully and lovingly picked up the scorpion and release him outside the cave. The monk said that the scorpion did what was his nature. And he did what was his nature.

Though he can answer himself, and its a good question, I think they mentioned being a pretty hardcore atheist scientific materialist so probably believe death is the permanent end to their consciousness.

But the journey does not end, Dagon. It is then not my journey but the journey of what I am constituted of. My journey finishes with my supposed death.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As I said, I have not read the Qur'an, so I do not know what it says, but I do know there are prophecies for the coming of the Mahdi: 3./ Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi

Why read second or third-hand stuff. You consider Mohammad to be a manifestation of Allah and respect him. And Qur'an is available in its English translation by so many people, even for free on internet. Read the original.

I have heard that only about 15% if Baha'u'llah's Tablets have thus far been translated into English.

I wonder why you call them tablets? Tablets meant what Mesopotamian and Iranians wrote on clay pieces in bronze age. Did Bahaollah too write on pieces of clay?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

And We put coverings over their hearts lest they should understand the Quran, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Quran, they turn on their backs, fleeing from the Truth. 17:46




And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. Romans 15:8.

His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?". He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable". Thomas 53.



Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. Habbakkuk 2:16

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. Romans 2:28

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16



And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of your evil doings. Jeremiah 4:4


At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. Joshua 5:2

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Romans 2:25

Well, I'm circumsized and probably have my circumsized heart and spirit or whatever, so a super jew. The only problem is a surgery got one testacle removed so there isca verse about anyone with their testacle messed up, cut off, crushed not being able to enter the assembly of God, so do you think I'll be among thd teeth gnashers instead because of that lost testacle? If so why, if not, why not?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

That's funny but the point was "no choice"

I agree. No choice. If you could choose, would you be a Saracen? I choose Templar, the type that they were accused of being.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I don't think so. He should have let them remain in the community rather than throw them out. He should have persisted with them. That would have been magnanimity befitting his supposed station.

Perhaps you remember the story of a monk and the scorpion. The scorpion bit the monk. The monk carefully and lovingly picked up the scorpion and release him outside the cave. The monk said that the scorpion did what was his nature. And he did what was his nature.But the journey does not end, Dagon. It is then not my journey but the journey of what I am constituted of. My journey finishes with my supposed death.

Yes. Do you plan on your corpse being cremated? I'm scared of death.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

As I said, I have not read the Qur'an, so I do not know what it says, but I do know there are prophecies for the coming of the Mahdi:

3./ Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi

www.islamawakened.com/quran in case anyone wants to read its verses, its not really that long of a book, the Bible is a bigger collection if writing.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

And I would to that the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, include advice about actions that are part of a natural way to maintain personal hygiene. He said that, “Five things are part of the fitrah: shaving the pubic hair, circumcision, trimming the moustache, plucking the armpit hairs, and cutting the nails”.This is believed to be the ancient way, the natural way, followed by all of the Prophets, and enjoined on the believers by the laws that they brought.

One must probably ask what Fitrah is, basically Muslims believe that all of humankind is born innately knowing that God is One. It is a natural state of being where one instinctively knows that there is a Creator and our natural way of life is to worship Him and please Him. The Arabic word for this state of being is fitrah and linguistically it means causing a thing to exist for the first time, in its most pure and natural condition. Prophet Muhammad said that every child was born in a state of fitrah, with the correct understanding of God.

The majority of Islamic scholars agree that circumcision is obligatory for men providing they do not fear that it may harm them. Circumcision makes it easier to keep the penis clean from traces of urine, dirt, or impurities and it involves cutting the foreskin covering the glans. It does not involve flaying the skin or part of the penis, in fact to do so would be causing deliberate harm and thus be against the teachings of Islam.

Plus it has a great benefits medically proven such as Protection against cancer of the penis, Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) and more but we are not here to talk about circumcision I guess

Do you do all that stuff?

Which ones do you do and not do?

Do you color your hair with hennah or red color like some do or put the kohl or whatever black stuff ansar or whatever its called around or near the eyes?

You might look cool, are you bold enough to show a sexy picture of yourself looking your Shariah best, Fitrah Fit Fashion?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

He said that, “Five things are part of the fitrah: shaving the pubic hair, circumcision, trimming the moustache, plucking the armpit hairs, and cutting the nails”. but we are not here to talk about circumcision I guess

I am! I think it might be important to discuss. No mention is made in the Qur'an of slicing God-given animal penis sheaths. The Wolf Spirit, if he converts (lol) and doesn't have his pee pee lose that silky slider, will be bothered by all Muslims who find out about their untrimmed peckerdoodle flesh.

Luckily, I was never asked:

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

the Quran 18:29, God says ‘And say: The truth [has now come] from your Sustainer: let then him who will, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it.’

So everyone has a choice

Chapter (28) sūrat l-qaṣaṣ (The Stories)


Sahih International: And your Lord creates what He wills and chooses; not for them was the choice. Exalted is Allah and high above what they associate with Him.

Pickthall: Thy Lord bringeth to pass what He willeth and chooseth. They have never any choice. Glorified be Allah and Exalted above all that they associate (with Him)!

Yusuf Ali: Thy Lord does create and choose as He pleases: no choice have they (in the matter): Glory to Allah! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!

Shakir: And your Lord creates and chooses whom He pleases; to choose is not theirs; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him).

Muhammad Sarwar: Your Lord creates and chooses (to grant mercy) to whomever He wants. (In matters of guidance) they (unbelievers) do not have the choice to choose whatever they want. God is too exalted to be considered equal to anything else.

Mohsin Khan: And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses, no choice have they (in any matter). Glorified be Allah, and exalted above all that they associate as partners (with Him).

Arberry: Thy Lord creates whatsoever He will and He chooses; they have not the choice. Glory be to God! High be He exalted above that they associate!

Chapter (76) sūrat l-insān (Man)


Sahih International: And you do not will except that Allah wills. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

Pickthall: Yet ye will not, unless Allah willeth. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

Yusuf Ali: But ye will not, except as Allah wills; for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

Shakir: And you do not please except that Allah please, surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;

Muhammad Sarwar: (The virtuous mentioned in this chapter) want only what God wants. God is All-knowing and All-wise.

Mohsin Khan: But you cannot will, unless Allah wills. Verily, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Arberry: But you will not unless God wills; surely God is ever All-knowing, All-wise.


Chapter (28) sūrat l-qaṣaṣ (The Stories)


Sahih International: Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.

Pickthall: Lo! thou (O Muhammad) guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright.

Yusuf Ali: It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.

Shakir: Surely you cannot guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He pleases, and He knows best the followers of the right way.

Muhammad Sarwar: (Muhammad), you cannot guide whomever you love, but God guides whomever He wants and knows best those who seek guidance.

Mohsin Khan: Verily! You (O Muhammad SAW) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.

Arberry: Thou guidest not whom thou likest, but God guides whom He wills, and knows very well those that are guided.

4:78
Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All [things] are from Allah." So what is [the matter] with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?

Chapter (57) sūrat l-ḥadīd (The Iron)


Sahih International: No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah , is easy -

Pickthall: Naught of disaster befalleth in the earth or in yourselves but it is in a Book before we bring it into being - Lo! that is easy for Allah -

Yusuf Ali: No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:

Shakir: No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah:

Muhammad Sarwar: Whatever hardships you face on earth and in your souls were written in the Book before the creation of the souls. This is certainly easy for God

Mohsin Khan: No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz), before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah.

Arberry: No affliction befalls in the earth or in yourselves, but it is in a Book, before We create it; that is easy for God;

Chapter (7) sūrat l-aʿrāf (The Heights)


Sahih International: And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.

Pickthall: Already have We urged unto hell many of the jinn and humankind, having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful.

Yusuf Ali: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

Shakir: And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.

Muhammad Sarwar: We have destined many men and jinn for hell. They have hearts but do not understand, eyes but do not see. They have ears but do not hear. They are worse than lost cattle. These are the heedless ones.

Mohsin Khan: And surely, We have created many of the jinns and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.

Arberry: We have created for Gehenna many jinn and men: they have hearts, but understand not with them; they have eyes, but perceive not with them; they have ears, but they hear not with them. They are like cattle; nay, rather they are further astray. Those -- they are the heedless.

Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)

: Then, after grief, He sent down security for you. As slumber did it overcome a party of you, while (the other) party, who were anxious on their own account, thought wrongly of Allah, the thought of ignorance. They said: Have we any part in the affair (of what happens)? Say: The entire affair belongeth wholly to Allah. They hide within themselves (a thought) which they reveal not unto thee, saying: Had we had any part in the cause we should not have been slain here. Say: Even though ye had been in your houses, those appointed to be slain would have gone forth to the places where they were to lie. (All this hath been) in order that Allah might manifest / prove what is in your breasts and prove / bring forth what is in your hearts. Allah is Aware of what is hidden in the breasts (of men).

 

[rational experiences]

The other day on Facebook I saw a young, lovely looking female quoting about Jesus.

And with a huge smile on her face said a quote about what she claims relates to One God theories in human sciences, with machine reactions.

When the dead arise she said...you know your deceased human being family member will be when you will see Jesus coming in the heavens with a lot of angels...and then we will all die and be with Jesus in the Heavens forever.

And she believed that what she quoted was being spiritual and spiritually advised.

So a long time ago, when I was younger, I reviewed all religious creation stories/themes and realized that our spiritual brother had realized that he changed the One body of the only planet that we live on, the theme our Creator.

And it attacked our life and harmed us...especially when big huge rocks/stones came back and hit the Earth...seeing he removed a great big huge cold frozen radiation mass for God converting sciences in his Temples and Pyramid history.

A multi cultural history of science brothers owned and used that technology until they realized that they were wrong...and the only loving self in reality was their own humanity...and have been trying to teach self that lesson ever since.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think so. He should have let them remain in the community rather than throw them out. He should have persisted with them. That would have been magnanimity befitting his supposed station.

Why should He? They were not going to change and covenant-breakers strike at the root of the Faith and try to split it up, destroying the unity and ruining it for everyone else. To be kind to them is to be cruel to everyone else who wants unity.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why read second or third-hand stuff. You consider Mohammad to be a manifestation of Allah and respect him. And Qur'an is available in its English translation by so many people, even for free on internet. Read the original.

I will read it eventually but I would prefer to take a study course so I can better understand what it means.

I wonder why you call them tablets? Tablets meant what Mesopotamian and Iranians wrote on clay pieces in bronze age. Did Bahaollah too write on pieces of clay?

No, He didn't write on clay. I do not know what they are called tablets. That is a good question, another Bahai might know the answer.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes. Do you plan on your corpse being cremated? I'm scared of death.

I agree. We do not want death to come to us early. But I have lived a full life, and my children and grand-children are doing OK. So there would not be any regret. However, my death should wait till my mother, who is 98 year old, passes away.

Yeah, for us it is cremation, it is quicker. Also that it does not require ever-increasing space for graveyards. However, I would like a few more things. I should not be cremated on a high platform, i.e. at ground level and under the sky and not under a shed. I want no mumbling of mantras. I know the mantras and the priests who will utter them and I have no faith in them. Then for disposal of bones and ashes, I would not want my son to undertake a five-hour journey to Haridwar where the remains are immersed in River Ganges. For me, River Yamuna which flows in Delhi will do equally well. After all, River Yamuna merges in Ganges at Allahabad. So I can leave it to Yamuna to take my ashes to River Ganges. Lastly, I do not want any yearly ritual to be conducted for my soul as I do not believe in existence of souls.

Why be afraid of death? A famous Hindi film song on death:

"Rote hue āte hain sab, has'tā huā jo jāegā;
wo mukaddar kā sikandar, jān-e-man kehlāegā.

Zindagi to bewafā hai, ek din thukarāegi;
Maut mehabūbā hai, apne sāth lekar jāegi
Rote hue āte hain sab .."

All arrive (in the world) weeping, one who goes laughing;
that person, my love, will be known as master of his destiny.

Life is disloyal, one day it will ditch you;
death is the true love, who will take you with her.
All arrive (in the world) weeping ..

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I agree. We do not want death to come to us early. But I have lived a full life, and my children and grand-children are doing OK. So there would not be any regret. However, my death should wait till my mother, who is 98 year old, passes away.
Yeah, for us it is cremation, and it is quicker. However, I would like a few more things. I should not be cremated on a high platform, i.e. at ground level and under the sky and not under a shed. I want no mumbling of mantras. I know the mantras and the priests who will utter them and I have no faith in them. Then for disposal of bones and ashes, I would not want my son to undertake a five-hour journey to Haridwar where the remains are immersed in River Ganges. For me, River Yamuna which flows in Delhi will do equally well. After all, River Yamuna merges in Ganges at Allahabad. So I can leave it to Yamuna to take my ashes to River Ganges. Lastly, I do not want any yearly ritual to be conducted for my soul as I do not believe in existence of souls.

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Why be afraid of death? A famous Hindi film song on death:

"Rote hue āte hain sab, hasatā huā jo jāegā;
wo mukaddar kā sikandar, jana-e-man kehlāegā.

Zindagi to bewafā hai, ek din thukarāegi;
Maut mehabūbā hai, apne sāth lekar jāegi
Rote hue āte hain sab .."

All arrive (in the world) weeping, one who goes laughing;
that person, my love, will be known as Alexander of fate.

Life is disloyal, one day it will ditch you;
death is the true love, who will take you with her.
All arrive (in the world) weeping ..

That comforts me a great deal, I think that it came to your mind to show me was a special thing. It is also significant to me regarding many things I'm studying and surrounded by including mystical things to do with Alexander. Also that I didn't cry when I was born and came out with my eyes opened and clean rather that covered in fluids, so clean that they didn't bathe me. Is your wife still alive and well? Has she discussed her wishes concerning her death and afterwards? What is done with the remains finally? Its usually just left in the river?

Haha, its funny too because as I was reading your comment I was thinking of and reciting in my mind Amitabhaaa.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is your wife still alive and well? Has she discussed her wishes concerning her death and afterwards? What is done with the remains finally? Its usually just left in the river?

Oh yes, she is very well. We have completed 53 years of married life. She is a regular Hindu polytheist, so her wishes will be very different from mine, nothing much to discuss. Yeah, the few bones that survive cremation and ashes are immersed in a body of water considered holy; rivers, lakes or ponds. Also sea, if the place is near the sea (Ganga Sagar, West Bengal). That depends on the region. In Kashmir (I am a Kashmiri brahmin), an immersion in Lake Gangbal (3,575 metres, 11,729 ft) is considered very good. The Delhi people generally go to Haridwar where River Ganges comes out of the mountains.

Gangbal; Boney and Anil Kapoor immersing the ashes of Shridevi at Haridwar; Pushkar Lake in Rajasthan, Gaya in Bihar.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Haha, its funny too because as I was reading your comment I was thinking of and reciting in my mind Amitabha.

Yeah, Amitabh. My son also is named Amitabh. But he was born in 1972, before the film Zanzeer (1973), which made Amitabh a Superstar. Amitabh and my son are named after one of the names of Buddha. Hindus revere Buddha as an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. And apparently Amitabh's father, Harivansha Rai Bachchan, was as enamored of Lord Buddha as I am. There are hundreds of thousands of Buddhas, Amitabhas, Siddharthas, Gautamas and Tathagatas in India. A very versatile actor, seems to improve with age all the time. Only Aamir Khan can match him in different portrayals.