Proof of God=Lack of Faith?

[tumbleweed41]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith? Do those who attempt to find evidence for God need this evidence to bolster their beliefs?
Aren't those believers who do so no different from the atheists they so despise?
For many atheists, it is the overwhelming lack of empirical evidence for a deity that leads them to unequivocally state that there is no such being.
While for the believer who attempts to find such evidence, it seems that they also need to find proof that God exists.

 

[Engyo]

Hard to say. Some people just walk away from the concept altogether; only needing to revisit it when someone else becomes enmeshed in the issue.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't have faith, I have certainty, through my experiences. Yes the OP is correct. Those who believe something do not know it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith? Do those who attempt to find evidence for God need this evidence to bolster their beliefs?
Aren't those believers who do so no different from the atheists they so despise?
For many atheists, it is the overwhelming lack of empirical evidence for a deity that leads them to unequivocally state that there is no such being.
While for the believer who attempts to find such evidence, it seems that they also need to find proof that God exists.

Mostly TW, but I am sure there are those that have so much faith, they simply enjoy spending their lives looking around to find God in things, like nature, or go to Israel and dream of what it must have been like for Jesus to walk around etc...

To know or have proof of the God in the bible, is truly to not know him at all, seeing he requires faith.

Good thread...

 

[sandandfoam]

Proving or disproving God is missing the point in my view.
God is a wonder beyond my grasp that I can perceive but not comprehend.

 

[Onkara]

I agree. The question of God should not be considered a need for proof but removing doubt or lack of knowing (ignorance). The demand for proof we so often seen on RF is really fishbate for a heated debate, fun though that is, at some point the boy must become a man and answer some more personal doubts with sincerity. Death awaits us

 

[Willamena]

I think those who have proved "God" to themselves are the ones who have faith in "God", so it's not an issue to me.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I think those who have proved "God" to themselves are the ones who have faith in "God", so it's not an issue to me.

Doesn't follow... How can one prove God, even to one's self? How can one be absoultely confident the proof isn't just a construct of the mind, and nothing to do with God in reality?

Or are you suggesting, just believe in what get's you by, and accept God might just be a construct of the mind, and that is good enough? Or are you seriously saying one is able to prove God is real to one's self?

 

[Willamena]

Doesn't follow... How can one prove God, even to one's self? How can one be absoultely confident the proof isn't just a construct of the mind, and nothing to do with God in reality?

Or are you suggesting, just believe in what get's you by, and accept God might just be a construct of the mind, and that is good enough? Or are you seriously saying one is able to prove God is real to one's self?

Proof is a construct of the mind. So, in some books, are "God" and reality. For instance, if we accept that the world-as-we-know-it is composed of our thoughts about the world, we have a constructed reality. ("You're a builder, baby; here I am, a stone.")

Reality is often just what gets you by.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Proof is a construct of the mind. So, in some books, are "God" and reality. For instance, if we accept that the world-as-we-know-it is composed of our thoughts about the world, we have a constructed reality. ("You're a builder, baby; here I am, a stone.")

Reality is often just what gets you by.

So just go with constructs, and not confuse it with something universally real. I have no problem with that... Believe in a dream cause nothing else is as real or false...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith? Do those who attempt to find evidence for God need this evidence to bolster their beliefs?
Aren't those believers who do so no different from the atheists they so despise?
For many atheists, it is the overwhelming lack of empirical evidence for a deity that leads them to unequivocally state that there is no such being.
While for the believer who attempts to find such evidence, it seems that they also need to find proof that God exists.

Faith is simply what people call the space that a lack of proof/evidence for a belief leaves. They may attempt to label it as something admirable or special, but, in the end, everyone would rather have proof/evidence for their beliefs, than faith.

 

[sandandfoam]

Proof is a construct of the mind. So, in some books, are "God" and reality. For instance, if we accept that the world-as-we-know-it is composed of our thoughts about the world, we have a constructed reality. ("You're a builder, baby; here I am, a stone.")

Reality is often just what gets you by.

Spot on.
I don't need to prove God because it's what I see, it's the way my mind makes sense of the world.

 

[Willamena]

So just go with constructs, and not confuse it with something universally real. I have no problem with that... Believe in a dream cause nothing else is as real or false...

Only problem with that is that reality is universally real.

The reality that's a construct is real.

 

[kejos]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith?

If those making such an attempt claim to represent Christianity, they do not do so. They either act in ignorance, or they attempt to present Christianity as an intellectual venture, not one that affects one's personal will and actions.

Christians do not believe that atheism exists. They believe that everyone believes that their own existence and that of the cosmos are the results of a creator; and they also believe that everyone believes the gospel when they hear or read it, though are often challenged by it to the point of refusal.

 

[Engyo]

So just go with constructs, and not confuse it with something universally real. I have no problem with that... Believe in a dream cause nothing else is as real or false...

Why do we need something universally real, when we can't differentiate that from the constructs?

 

[tarasan]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith? Do those who attempt to find evidence for God need this evidence to bolster their beliefs?
Aren't those believers who do so no different from the atheists they so despise?
For many atheists, it is the overwhelming lack of empirical evidence for a deity that leads them to unequivocally state that there is no such being.
While for the believer who attempts to find such evidence, it seems that they also need to find proof that God exists.

Our evidence is for other people not neccessairly for ourselves.

Its to show others that our view is a rational way to think.

 

[Caladan]

Is attempting to 'prove' God actually reveling a lack of faith? Do those who attempt to find evidence for God need this evidence to bolster their beliefs?
Aren't those believers who do so no different from the atheists they so despise?
For many atheists, it is the overwhelming lack of empirical evidence for a deity that leads them to unequivocally state that there is no such being.
While for the believer who attempts to find such evidence, it seems that they also need to find proof that God exists.

I always say that people who flash their religion, try to prove their religion is exclusively right, who try to convert others show nothing but weakness in their faith and religion. a person who is strong in faith and has matured into his religion, has understood it, and its roots, will be secure enough to withstand the fact that our world is filled with other doctrines, dogmas, and faiths.
to me, the moment you 'prove' your religion is the right one, you have lost.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Our evidence is for other people not neccessairly for ourselves.

Its to show others that our view is a rational way to think.

So the drive to "prove" God is driven by a need to be seen as rational?
Doesn't this revel an insecurity in the believers faith?

 

[kejos]

So the drive to "prove" God is driven by a need to be seen as rational?
Doesn't this revel an insecurity in the believers faith?

If those making such an attempt claim to represent Christianity, they do not do so. They either act in ignorance, or they attempt to present Christianity as an intellectual venture, not one that affects one's personal will and actions.

Christians do not believe that atheism exists. They believe that everyone believes that their own existence and that of the cosmos are the results of a creator; and they also believe that everyone believes the gospel when they hear or read it, though are often challenged by it to the point of refusal.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Christians do not believe that atheism exists. They believe that everyone believes that their own existence and that of the cosmos are the results of a creator; and they also believe that everyone believes the gospel when they hear or read it, though are often challenged by it to the point of refusal.

Ridiculous statement. Do Buddhist exist? Muslims? Deists? Hindus? Taoists? Pagans? Are all beliefs other than Christianity non-existent?
Do they all actually believe the Gospels when they hear or read it? Are they all in denial?
Pure arrogance.