Pro-Tip: History can't be erased

[QuestioningMind]

We are not talking about statues. We are talking about history. Should we change history to eliminate all signs of slavery? And all mention of anyone who owned or supported slavery?

Removing Confederate Monuments Won’t Erase History, But Could Correct It

Not sure if you bothered to read the OP but this thread IS about weather or not removing offensive statues will in any way cause us to 'erase' of 'forget' our history. How does removing a statue that celebrates the leaders of a cause whose primary goal was to break this nation apart in ANY way equate to 'removing from the history books any mention of slavery'?

 

[fantome profane]

The thread is about history. Should we change history. Should we remove from the history books any mention of anyone who owned slaves?

No, but the history books should condemn slave owners, not gloss over it and honour them.

 

[fantome profane]

Can you present an historical event or series of event where you believe history has been erased as well as your reasonning behind this choice?

One thing that comes to mind is the story of Christopher Columbus. Many history books record him as a brave explorer and completely ignore the fact that he committed genocide.

What did you learn about Columbus when you were in grade school?

 

[Twilight Hue]

George Washington owned slaves. What about that can we erase or change? Shall we forget that he was the first president and take him out of the history books? Some things just do not make sense.

There goes his picture in all the school classrooms. If not already.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One thing that comes to mind is the story of Christopher Columbus. Many history books record him as a brave explorer and completely ignore the fact that he committed genocide.

What did you learn about Columbus when you were in grade school?

What if Columbus was Portuguese?

 

[fantome profane]

What if Columbus was Portuguese?

What if?

 

[Twilight Hue]

What if?

Just thought I'd throw it in there.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Removing Confederate Monuments Won’t Erase History, But Could Correct It

Not sure if you bothered to read the OP but this thread IS about weather or not removing offensive statues will in any way cause us to 'erase' of 'forget' our history. How does removing a statue that celebrates the leaders of a cause whose primary goal was to break this nation apart in ANY way equate to 'removing from the history books any mention of slavery'?

I read it. It says history can't be erased. Removing a statue does not change history and also does not "correct" it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

No, but the history books should condemn slave owners, not gloss over it and honour them.

Well George Washington ownwed slaves. How do you suggest we avoid glossing over or honoring him.

 

[fantome profane]

Well George Washington ownwed slaves. How do you suggest we avoid glossing over or honoring him.

What do you mean how? You tell the truth. George Washington was a slave owner.

 

[epronovost]

One thing that comes to mind is the story of Christopher Columbus. Many history books record him as a brave explorer and completely ignore the fact that he committed genocide.

What did you learn about Columbus when you were in grade school?

Grade school doesn't teach you history, at let not in depth, it just skims the suface much like it doesn't teach you a tenth of what there is to learn that and most of grade school history is designed from a national-centric point of view on purpose.

It was never "hidden" that Columbus was a genocidal and slave tacking commander. Nobody tried to "conceal" that fact. When I was in grade school, I was tought that Columbus was the fist European to reach the America since the Vikings, that he claimed the territory for Spain and brought back treasures and slaves to prove that he had reached his destination.

Of course my knowledge and academic training in history far exceeds that I was taught in grade school.

 

[esmith]

Can you present an historical event or series of event where you believe history has been erased as well as your reasonning behind this choice?

Look how the history of the opening of the west was dealt with.

 

[WalterTrull]

That's a fairly loaded comment; what's a "mature reaction" to have in front of a monument errected to the glory and nobility of a confederate soldier or commander during the onset of the Jim Crow era?

I think a mature reaction might be one that takes into consideration both human emotions and human reality.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I read it. It says history can't be erased. Removing a statue does not change history and also does not "correct" it.

No it does not.

But how did you jump to the ridiculous conclusion that removing a statue designed to honor individuals who attempted to do harm to this nation will lead to or equate to 'removing all mention of slavery from history books'? What the heck does one have to do with the other?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

George Washington owned slaves. What about that can we erase or change? Shall we forget that he was the first president and take him out of the history books? Some things just do not make sense.

Of course he did -- everybody did. That's how it was at the time. And it would put anybody at an intolerable competetive disadvantage to not use what everyone else was using.

We can only judge historical figures within the context of their own time and place -- not ours. But then, we must remember that there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. When it became time for slavery to end, then those who actually went to war to prevent it must suffer the opprobrium they earned by losing the fight.

During Washington's time, the time had not yet come for emancipation (even though today we all know in our hearts that slavery is a great evil). During the civil war, when the Confederate states and leadership were fighting against abolition of slavery, they were in the wrong, and they lost. And with that loss, comes being stripped of public adulation.

That doesn't erase history -- the history is well enough known. It simply takes people who don't deserve a pedestal off of the ones they've been standing on too long.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't really see your point. Should we stamp out all history of slavery or just pick certain parts?

It is a foolish notion that we can stamp out past history. Actually I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

No. you need to recognize that ancient world tribal views like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, did not forbid slavery, and like all moral and ethical codes we are evolving beyond these ancient worldviews.. To a great extent can acknowledge the reform and change over time as humanity evolves beyond ancient tribalism in more ways than the problem of morals concerning slavery. Until the 18th and 19th century when humanitarian reforms and spiritual laws like those of the Baha'i Faith formed the foundation for new standards of moral and ethical behavior.

Removing the statues and the Confederate flag are important in healing the consequences of the horrendous tragic war to divide the nation and justification of the preservation of slavery and the degradation of blacks they represent.

 

[shunyadragon]

Tell that to China which is working very hard to erase Tienanmen.

Huh!?!?!?! Not even Chinese oppression can erase history.

Remembering history is important. Celebrating losers is not.

I may celebrate losers if they have a moral case for their cause, but I cannot celebrate winners nor losers of their cause is immoral and unjust.

 

[tytlyf]

George Washington owned slaves. What about that can we erase or change? Shall we forget that he was the first president and take him out of the history books? Some things just do not make sense.

He wasn't in the confederacy. I don't recall him being a racist either. George Washington was a progressive through and through. You have to remember that the founders were very progressive and secular.

"Liberty Parent of Science & Industry"

 

[Ponder This]

And you think that removing statues that celebrate people who rose up and tried to break this great nation apart will somehow cause a second Civil War? These same statues that are so popular among people who say things like "The South will rise again!" or who routine call for the South to secede from the union?

Nah, I think you are right. They should remove Robert E. Lee.

After all, history can't be erased... but it can be manufactured!

 

[QuestioningMind]

Nah, I think you are right. They should remove Robert E. Lee.

After all, history can't be erased... but it can be manufactured!

Ah yes, you mean like it was 'manufactured' during the 40's and 50's when these statues were erected, where they try and depict the traitorous losers of the Civil War as some sort of heroes to be honored. I agree, it's LONG overdue for us to tear down such 'manufactured' history.