Pork prohibited not only for muslims

[Rainbow Mage]

So wait a minute...let me get this straight.....

You believe..

1.) Yeshua came to free the Jews from.....? (the law)
2.) You also believe the law is a curse?

That is correct. The NT teaches that. Jesus even said he came for the lost sheep of Israel. The Gentiles were not lost, in fact he commended a Roman and a Canaanite for their faith.

 

[Harmonious]

So you admit that non-Jews are not required to keep kosher?

Of course. Non-Jews were never required to keep Kosher.

 

[Harmonious]

Lol, Paul explicitly states that the Old Law is the yoke of slavery which Jesus freed us from. You can eat all the pork you want.

Thread debunked.

You know, people who do their darnedest to KEEP the laws don't find Torah law to be slavery.

Non-Jews were never burdened with more than 7 laws. It's because non-Jews have the temerity to call God's preciius gift to the Jews "slavery" that it was never incumbant on non-Jews to do more than those seven commandments.

 

[Harmonious]

Came to free Jews from, but yes.

It wasn't his call. And who says Jews WANT to be free from the Yoke of Heaven?

Non-Jews are fortunate to have never been under the curse of the law

The Law isn't a curse. But hey - if thinking that it is makes you happy, then enjoy.

Just don't think that your thoughts in this direction affect Jews who live under Torah Law with joy, gladness, love, and gratitude.

 

[Harmonious]

so your saying that gentiles can eat pork but jewish christians cant?

I would say that JEWS can't eat pork.

I am holding my tongue about Jews becoming Christian, as that wouldn't be helpful or flattering.

 

[silenceinmotion]

You know, people who do their darnedest to KEEP the laws don't find Torah law to be slavery.

Non-Jews were never burdened with more than 7 laws. It's because non-Jews have the temerity to call God's preciius gift to the Jews "slavery" that it was never incumbant on non-Jews to do more than those seven commandments.

If you look at what Paul and the disciples say, Christians are supposed to not:
-commit idolatry
-commit theft
-commit blasphemy
-commit murder
-commit sexual immoralities
-eat a live animal

And they are supposed to have a court that judges according to God's will. (Unfortunately, the Church took this to mighty extremes in the pre/medieval ages, but secular courts are still against Christianity.)

These are the Noahide laws, and the New Covenant is precisely that, with the guiding Beatitudes from Christ.
The laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy are harsh, because they are not objects of grace but of perfection. Perfection is nothing less then slavery.

 

[FearGod]

i have a question here regarding some verses in the bible which describe the pork
meat as unclean and impure.

The question is "Do christians reject verses from Leviticus , Deuteronomy & Isaiah.

Leviticus 11:7
And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Isaiah 65:4
who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of impure meat;

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the LORD.

 

[Looncall]

i have a question here regarding some verses in the bible which describe the pork
meat as unclean and impure.

The question is "Do christians reject verses from Leviticus , Deuteronomy & Isaiah.

Leviticus 11:7
And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Isaiah 65:4
who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of impure meat;

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the LORD.

Why should anyone care what is in the bible? It is just the thinking of a starveling people coping with the lack of cooking fuel that happens in deserts.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

so your saying that gentiles can eat pork but jewish christians cant?

Harmonious answered it perfectly.....

I've seen nothing from your NT where Yeshua does away with Leviticus 11:7. While non-jews aren't required to keep kosher Yeshua was and it appears it's what he taught...at least according to Matthew 5.

 

[Harmonious]

If you look at what Paul and the disciples say, Christians are supposed to not:
-commit idolatry
-commit theft
-commit blasphemy
-commit murder
-commit sexual immoralities
-eat a live animal

And they are supposed to have a court that judges according to God's will. (Unfortunately, the Church took this to mighty extremes in the pre/medieval ages, but secular courts are still against Christianity.)

These are the Noahide laws, and the New Covenant is precisely that, with the guiding Beatitudes from Christ.
The laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy are harsh, because they are not objects of grace but of perfection. Perfection is nothing less then slavery.

No one ever demanded perfection in fulfilling commandments but Jesus, and my respect for him isn't very high.

As far as I can tell, he created a need for what he is perceived to be. He decided that the commandments could only be accepted if they were done perfectly. Since no one is perfect but God, fulfilling commandments to Jesus' artificially imposed standards are impossible to live by. So with this new situation, Jesus then said that he freed the Jews from the impossible standards that Jesus created to start with.

Talk about self-serving self-engradizement.

Jews who never cared about Jesus one way or another understand that the Torah is infinite, and the many facets are not for the purpose of finding fault, but for finding ever increasing sources of merit.

And we can always repent for our shortcomings. We do our best, and God will do the rest.

 

[Harmonious]

If you look at what Paul and the disciples say, Christians are supposed to not:
-commit idolatry
-commit theft
-commit blasphemy
-commit murder
-commit sexual immoralities
-eat a live animal

And they are supposed to have a court that judges according to God's will. (Unfortunately, the Church took this to mighty extremes in the pre/medieval ages, but secular courts are still against Christianity.)

A Jewish ecclesiastical court works VERY differently than any Christian court I have ever heard of.

These are the Noahide laws, and the New Covenant is precisely that, with the guiding Beatitudes from Christ.

Two points for Jesus not reinventing the wheel, as far as non-Jews are concerned.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Just curious what your take on the Islamic view of Jesus is then. Because according to Islam Jesus never abolished the law and kept it perfectly

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Just curious what your take on the Islamic view of Jesus is then. Because according to Islam Jesus never abolished the law and kept it perfectly

It is true he never abolished the law and taught that the law should be kept and anyone teaching otherwise would be least in the kingdom of heaven but where does it say he kept it perfectly?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It is true he never abolished the law and taught that the law should be kept and anyone teaching otherwise would be least in the kingdom of heaven but where does it say he kept it perfectly?

Oh I was just putting forth the Islamic view for Harmonious wondering how a religious Jew would feel toward a more Torah oriented Jesus.

I do not believe Jesus kept the law or taught it, except to put forth his teachings. He and the religious leaders clashed because he often didn't keep the law

 

[Harmonious]

Oh I was just putting forth the Islamic view for Harmonious wondering how a religious Jew would feel toward a more Torah oriented Jesus.

I do not believe Jesus kept the law or taught it, except to put forth his teachings. He and the religious leaders clashed because he often didn't keep the law

I'm not precisely sure what you are asking me.

Based on the Gospels, Jesus might have kept SOME commandments, but he certainly didn't keep them all, and he certainly didn't keep them all perfectly.

I would suggest that if your interpretation of the Islamic view on Jesus is accurate, by saying that he kept the Torah perfectly, then the Islamic view is wrong.

But then again, it is my understanding that Islam holds Jesus to be some sort of prophet, so it would be foolish for someone to claim to be a Jewish prophet and "abolish" Torah law. I would give the Islam perspective that agrees with this detail two points.

The idea that Jesus falls seriously short as any kind of prophet other than a false one, as far as Jewish prophets are concerned, isn't precisely taken into account by Islam, from what I understand.

 

[FearGod]

investigations done on 5 pig farms around the world

[youtube]aE7ClrgFHsw[/youtube]
The squalid reality of a pig's life - YouTube

 

[Dirty Penguin]

investigations done on 5 pig farms around the world

But let us not be so quick to ignore other animals such as chickens and live stock. They are raised and kept in equally appalling situations.

Then again...I don't normally buy from local markets. I have a few dozen farmers here in VA. that are natural farmers. The beef, chicken and turkey are free range/grass fed. I make a trip out to some of them from time to time and buy my meats. I have a 5ft tall deep freezer in my basement where I store my food.

I have a co-worker that hunts for deer and have some of that stocked up as well. Another cool thing is the local farmer's markets. We have some that come to our area and setup their fruits, veggies and herbs. I love it because I can get some really fresh items their with not pesticides.....All of this can be really expensive but my kids are grown. We still have one living at home but my wife and I are able to splurge a little to try and live a little better.

 

[FearGod]

But let us not be so quick to ignore other animals such as chickens and live stock. They are raised and kept in equally appalling situations.

Then again...I don't normally buy from local markets. I have a few dozen farmers here in VA. that are natural farmers. The beef, chicken and turkey are free range/grass fed. I make a trip out to some of them from time to time and buy my meats. I have a 5ft tall deep freezer in my basement where I store my food.

I have a co-worker that hunts for deer and have some of that stocked up as well. Another cool thing is the local farmer's markets. We have some that come to our area and setup their fruits, veggies and herbs. I love it because I can get some really fresh items their with not pesticides.....All of this can be really expensive but my kids are grown. We still have one living at home but my wife and I are able to splurge a little to try and live a little better.

right,sheep & cows farms are much different


[youtube]kXAfcpAco-U[/youtube]
Fulton Michigan Sheep Farm - YouTube

 

[Dirty Penguin]

right,sheep & cows farms are much different

There's a lot of crappy ones out there. Many beef up (pardon the pund) their cows with hormones etc. It seems that the majority of farms we get a chance to see on youtube/or news are just horrible. Almost makes you want to grow your own fruits and veggies or become a vegetarian...

But every once in a while you can find some decent purveyors close to home that raise and feed animal in a more humane way. I think here in VA we have one or two pig farms that are freerange.

 

[Quagmire]

right,sheep & cows farms are much different


[youtube]kXAfcpAco-U[/youtube]
Fulton Michigan Sheep Farm - YouTube

Only a very small percentage of beef comes from free range cattle.

The overwhelming majority of beef comes from "Factory farms".

[youtube]hakAfNWxneg[/youtube]
The Truth About Factory Farming and Beef Slaughterhouses - YouTube


You're really presenting either a false or at least a ridiculously slanted picture of just about everything you've covered so far.