Pork prohibited not only for muslims

[F0uad]

Only a very small percentage of beef comes from free range cattle.

The overwhelming majority of beef comes from "Factory farms".

[youtube]hakAfNWxneg[/youtube]
The Truth About Factory Farming and Beef Slaughterhouses - YouTube


You're really presenting either a false or at least a dishonestly slanted picture of just about everything you've covered so far.

Halal meat doesn't come from Factory Farms neither does Kosher meat.. I am not sure about the Kosher meat though i think a Jew should confirm it. Also in Islamic laws its forbidden to harm or do injustice to animals.

 

[Quagmire]

Halal meat doesn't come from Factory Farms neither does Kosher meat.. I am not sure about the Kosher meat though i think a Jew should confirm it.

Don't be too sure about that: the regulatory organizations that determine who does and doesn't qualify for certain designations---"organic" "natural" "free range" "kosher"---are a lot more lax and (themselves) unregulated than most people know.

I don't know much about the providers of kosher meats, and I know nothing at all about the halal providers, but I do know that the guidelines for the other designations I mentioned are so loose, vaguely worded, and the industry itself so unsupervised that they really don't mean anything in and of themselves.

Also in Islamic laws its forbidden to harm or do injustice to animals.

Which is great, but if the industry providing the meat isn't bound by those laws (if the producers aren't Muslim themselves) you can bet they'll find some way to use (basically) typically conventional production methods and still qualify for the halal label if they can.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Halal meat doesn't come from Factory Farms neither does Kosher meat.. I am not sure about the Kosher meat though i think a Jew should confirm it. Also in Islamic laws its forbidden to harm or do injustice to animals.

All this is rather irrelevant if we're talking about what sorts of food non-Muslims to choose. There are free-range options for just about every sort of meat, including pork.

 

[F0uad]

, and I know nothing at all about the halal providers, but I do know that the guidelines for the other designations I mentioned are so loose, vaguely worded, and the industry itself so unsupervised that they really don't mean anything in and of themselves.

And you know this how? There are super-visers at-least in Islamic countries i would agree that in the Western-World its much harder to know where the meat comes from.

Which is great, but if the industry providing the meat isn't bound by those laws (if the producers aren't Muslim themselves) you can bet they'll find some way to use (basically) typically conventional production methods and still qualify for the halal label if they can.

Yes but the producers are Muslims, Halal meat can only be bought from Open-Farms since all animals should been treated with justice you should have done some quick search up about it.

 

[FearGod]

Only a very small percentage of beef comes from free range cattle.

The overwhelming majority of beef comes from "Factory farms".

[youtube]hakAfNWxneg[/youtube]
The Truth About Factory Farming and Beef Slaughterhouses - YouTube


You're really presenting either a false or at least a ridiculously slanted picture of just about everything you've covered so far.

Which is false,the investigation done on the 5 pig farms.

or did i produce that video which is very loathsome about pigs,
i ain't telling you don't eat pork,and i will never ask any one to do so,
but just i am showing why we feel disgusting about such animals and
i gave before an example about the dogs,which are eaten in the far
east,but never in other parts of the world.

So there is a reason for us as muslims & jews for not eating pork,because
we feel disgusting about such animals due to our faith on them according
to our belief that they are unclean and impure.

 

[F0uad]

All this is rather irrelevant if we're talking about what sorts of food non-Muslims to choose. There are free-range options for just about every sort of meat, including pork.

Agreed Non-Muslims can do whatever they want its not my worry at all. But since Muslims do not eat the pork don't they have a advantage over the Non-Muslims in the way of not eating that specific meat that are imprisoned there entire live to get eaten?

 

[cablescavenger]

Which is false,the investigation done on the 5 pig farms.

or did i produce that video which is very loathsome about pigs,
i ain't telling you don't eat pork,and i will never ask any one to do so,
but just i am showing why we feel disgusting about such animals and
i gave before an example about the dogs,which are eaten in the far
east,but never in other parts of the world.

So there is a reason for us as muslims & jews for not eating pork,because
we feel disgusting about such animals due to our faith on them according
to out belief that they are unclean and impure.

That's rubbish. I don't believe that for a second.

I defy anyone to find a burger from McDonalds that contains meat

 

[Quagmire]

Which is false,the investigation done on the 5 pig farms.

or did i produce that video which is very loathsome about pigs,

You seemed to be trying to say that other forms of livestock were raised and kept in better conditions. That's the falsehood.

i ain't telling you don't eat pork,and i will never ask any one to do so,

You don't have to: I became a full vegetarian recently and even before that I've avoided pork for several decades now.

I'm not advocating pork consumption, I'm advocating an honest presentation of the facts.

but just i am showing why we feel disgusting about such animals and
i gave before an example about the dogs,which are eaten in the far
east,but never in other parts of the world.

So you're saying the main reason not to eat pork is an aesthetic or cultural aversion? Kind of defeats the whole point of your OP, doesn't it?

So there is a reason for us as muslims & jews for not eating pork,because
we feel disgusting about such animals due to our faith on them according
to out belief that they are unclean and impure.

Uh huh. Thing is, the title of your thread says this: "Pork prohibited not only for muslims".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Agreed Non-Muslims can do whatever they want its not my worry at all. But since Muslims do not eat the pork don't they have a advantage over the Non-Muslims in the way of not eating that specific meat that are imprisoned there entire live to get eaten?

No, I don't think they do. As I said, a non-Muslim is free to eat free range meat. Also, non-Muslims are free to choose meat from animals that are killed in ways that are more humane than halal slaughter methods.

 

[Harmonious]

Don't be too sure about that: the regulatory organizations that determine who does and doesn't qualify for certain designations---"organic" "natural" "free range" "kosher"---are a lot more lax and (themselves) unregulated than most people know.

I don't know much about the providers of kosher meats, and I know nothing at all about the halal providers, but I do know that the guidelines for the other designations I mentioned are so loose, vaguely worded, and the industry itself so unsupervised that they really don't mean anything in and of themselves.

I wanted to weigh in on the kosher meat.

Factory farms are not permitted, when raising kosher meat. The pain and cruelty to the animals by themselves would render the animal unkosher, regardless of whether it might have been a kosher animal raised under different circumstances.

Each animal has to have the careful attention of the slaughterer, and attention has to be paid to the health of the animal, and the sharpness of the blade, and all kinds of other individual attention.

While "organic" or "free range" isn't entirely necessary, a heck of a lot more freedom of movement than I've seen "caged calves" for veal IS necessary.

I also don't see how "fois gras" can be kosher, as it requires force feeding the geese in question.

 

[F0uad]

No, I don't think they do. As I said, a non-Muslim is free to eat free range meat. Also, non-Muslims are free to choose meat from animals that are killed in ways that are more humane than halal slaughter methods.

Not if they the butchers are trained to do it a animal cannot suffer while being killed at-least that's how it should be. And i am pretty sure Jews also have some strict rules on this also.

I would prefer a quick-death or a 10second torture but having lived in Open-Farm my entire live then being imprisoned my whole live with no space to walk and being over-fed just to wait to get killed.

 

[F0uad]

I wanted to weigh in on the kosher meat.

Factory farms are not permitted, when raising kosher meat. The pain and cruelty to the animals by themselves would render the animal unkosher, regardless of whether it might have been a kosher animal raised under different circumstances.

Each animal has to have the careful attention of the slaughterer, and attention has to be paid to the health of the animal, and the sharpness of the blade, and all kinds of other individual attention.

While "organic" or "free range" isn't entirely necessary, a heck of a lot more freedom of movement than I've seen "caged calves" for veal IS necessary.

I also don't see how "fois gras" can be kosher, as it requires force feeding the geese in question.

Beat me to it.

 

[Quagmire]

I wanted to weigh in on the kosher meat.

Factory farms are not permitted, when raising kosher meat. The pain and cruelty to the animals by themselves would render the animal unkosher, regardless of whether it might have been a kosher animal raised under different circumstances.

Each animal has to have the careful attention of the slaughterer, and attention has to be paid to the health of the animal, and the sharpness of the blade, and all kinds of other individual attention.

While "organic" or "free range" isn't entirely necessary, a heck of a lot more freedom of movement than I've seen "caged calves" for veal IS necessary.

I also don't see how "fois gras" can be kosher, as it requires force feeding the geese in question.

Might want to look at this:

[youtube]YZ74SpTA_-o[/youtube]
If This Is Kosher... (Short) - YouTube

review of video:

"The New York Times described PETA's undercover investigation at the world's largest glatt kosher slaugherhouse as "grisly" in its news coverage of our breaking story of animal abuse. The story broke in November 2004, but remains the biggest scandal in the kosher meat industry in recent memory. For many in the Jewish community, the seriousness of these abuses and kosher authorities' failure to denounce them have raised fundamental questions about the consumption of meat."
Amazon.com: 'If This Is Kosher': Narrated by Author Jonathan Safran Foer, Jonathan Safran Foer: Movies & TV

The long version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1eLjnGafk&feature=related

 

[F0uad]

Might want to look at this:

[youtube]YZ74SpTA_-o[/youtube]
If This Is Kosher... (Short) - YouTube

review of video:

"The New York Times described PETA's undercover investigation at the world's largest glatt kosher slaugherhouse as "grisly" in its news coverage of our breaking story of animal abuse. The story broke in November 2004, but remains the biggest scandal in the kosher meat industry in recent memory. For many in the Jewish community, the seriousness of these abuses and kosher authorities' failure to denounce them have raised fundamental questions about the consumption of meat."
Amazon.com: 'If This Is Kosher': Narrated by Author Jonathan Safran Foer, Jonathan Safran Foer: Movies & TV

The long version:

[youtube]rf1eLjnGafk[/youtube]
If This Is Kosher... (Long) part 1/2 - YouTube

So something happened in 2004 therefore the whole practice should be banned?
The imprisoning of those animals are accepted by the general public so in reality its much worse. The failure of the practice in 2004 was denounced and is denounced by the teaching itself yet people who eat pork meat are committing the crime by accepting the pigs being imprisoned and fed till there death. So you still don't think we have a advantage?

 

[Quagmire]

So something happened in 2004 therefore the whole practice should be banned?

When did I say that?

And did you watch the video? It wasn't/isn't an isolated incident.

The imprisoning of those animals are accepted by the general public so in reality its much worse. The failure of the practice in 2004 was denounced and is denounced by the teaching itself

"Denouncing" something doesn't mean much if you're still supporting the practice.

There are plenty of people driving around with "Save the Earth" and "Get out of the Middle East" bumper stickers on their gas guzzlers. The oil companies couldn't care less whether or not you approve of their practices as long as they're still getting your money.

Same thing with the meat industry; you can say that inhumane treatment of animals goes against your beliefs, and point the finger at any of these kosher meat producers who get caught using inhumane practices, but the reality is that unless you actually know where and who your kosher meat is coming from, and what methods they're using, there's a good chance you're supporting practices that violate kosher laws.

yet people who eat pork meat are committing the crime by accepting the pigs being imprisoned and fed till there death. So you still don't think we have a advantage?

Not if the same thing is being done to cattle, chickens, and whatever other livestock you're eating.

 

[F0uad]

"Denouncing" something doesn't mean much if you're still supporting the practice.

The practice itself is not harmful only the accident was.

There are plenty of people driving around with "Save the Earth" and "Get out of the Middle East" bumper stickers on their gas guzzlers. The oil companies couldn't care less whether or not you approve of their practices as long as they're still getting your money.

So how is this relevant?

Same thing with the meat industry; you can say that inhumane treatment of animals goes against your beliefs, and point the finger at any of these kosher meat producers who get caught using inhumane practices, but the reality is that unless you actually know where and who your kosher meat is coming from, and what methods they're using, there's a good chance you're supporting practices that violate kosher laws.

I agree.

Not if the same thing is being done to cattle, chickens, and whatever other livestock you're eating.

However the pigs are save from us so we do have one-advantage in this sense don't you think?

 

[Quagmire]

The practice itself is not harmful only the accident was.

What "accident"? The video isn't about any "accident", it's about a common practice employed by several kosher slaughter houses. Really, watch the video.

The only 'accident" was that they got caught.

So how is this relevant?

Read the paragraph after it. I was drawing a comparison.

I agree.


However the pigs are save from us so we do have one-advantage in this sense don't you think?

Not sure how that works out in terms of poundage and the number of actual animals killed.

I mean, yeah, the pigs benefit from your not eating them, but for every pound of pork you don't buy you're buying a pound of some other meat, right?

 

[F0uad]

I mean, yeah, the pigs benefit from your not eating them, but for every pound of pork you don't buy you're buying a pound of some other meat, right?

Not me personally i check where i get my meat.

But its a fair point.

 

[Harmonious]

Might want to look at this:

[youtube]YZ74SpTA_-o[/youtube]
If This Is Kosher... (Short) - YouTube

review of video:

"The New York Times described PETA's undercover investigation at the world's largest glatt kosher slaugherhouse as "grisly" in its news coverage of our breaking story of animal abuse. The story broke in November 2004, but remains the biggest scandal in the kosher meat industry in recent memory. For many in the Jewish community, the seriousness of these abuses and kosher authorities' failure to denounce them have raised fundamental questions about the consumption of meat."
Amazon.com: 'If This Is Kosher': Narrated by Author Jonathan Safran Foer, Jonathan Safran Foer: Movies & TV

The long version:

[youtube]rf1eLjnGafk[/youtube]
If This Is Kosher... (Long) part 1/2 - YouTube

While I still have to watch your, I would also like to point out when such things that you hinted to happened, companies that what were once thought of as Kosher meat companies had their Kosher certificate yanked, and they were blacklisted in the Orthodox community.

Rubashkin's was one such company - they had many illegal and immoral practices going on. Once their underhanded deeds (re: the conditions of the animals, the conditions and legality of their employees, etc.) were brought to light, they were flagged by the Orthodox Jewish community. Fliers went out, Rabbis declaimed them in the pulpit... It was made clear that the people involved in Rubashkin's were no longer interested in being Kosher, in any stretch of the imagination.

So, while I will make it my business to watch the video and talk about it in a more informed way, I just wanted you to know that such practices that you even HINTED about are NOT the norm, and are NOT accepted.

 

[Harmonious]

Oh. While watching the long version (parts 1 and 2), I came to realize that AgriProcessors Inc. IS Rubashkin's.

Yeah - there was a LOT of controversy, and as I said, this company been blacklisted since this was uncovered. There was corruption among the Orthodox certification organizations uncovered, and, as I said, their Kosher certificate was yanked.

The Conservative and Reform Rabbis weren't the only ones who were against the abuses of AgriProcessors Inc.

I had also heard about the corruption internationally abroad described in Part 2.

I say that it is unfair to determine that ALL Kosher meat companies today operate under the same corrupt aegis as AgriProcessors Inc., that was uncovered 8 years ago.