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Featured Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts.

    Optimism runs high among many...
    Will the Nations really bring Peace and Security, or will their cry spell Sudden Destruction?
    1 Thessalonians 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 

    What we know...
    CRIME & VIOLENCE
    GLOBAL STUDY ON HOMICIDE 2013
    Intentional homicide caused the deaths of almost half a million people (437,000) across the world in 2012.

    Homicide rate
    In 2015 an estimated 470 000 people worldwide were victims of homicide (global rate of 6.4 per 100 000).

    Paying attention...
    The Quest For Peace and Security
    GLOBAL VIOLENT DEATHS 2017 - Time to Decide
    .....
    Approximately 560,000 people lost their lives violently in 2016, meaning that, on average, interpersonal or collective violence killed at least one person every minute of every day of the year. For every person killed, many others suffered devastating consequences.

    Can man solve the problem...?
    The UN's Agenda...
    At the global level, there is a growing desire to identify strategies to prevent violence and violent deaths. The international community recognizes the need to prioritize conflict prevention by tackling the root causes of tensions, helping to build and strengthen institutions, and ...
    At the national level, a growing number of states have invested in promoting initiatives to prevent crime and violence (WHO, UNODC, and UNDP, 2014, p. 27).

    The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development has the potential to usher in much needed changes. When world leaders gathered at the United Nations in September 2015 to adopt a landmark blueprint for global development, they recognized peaceful societies as a prerequisite for all 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) of the 2030 Agenda — and as a goal in its own right. In committing to Goal 16, all states pledge to promote ‘peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels’ (UNGA, 2015, p. 25). The 2030 Agenda is the first universal framework to make an explicit connection between violence, conflict, and development, stating that ‘sustainable development cannot be realized without peace and security; and peace and security will be at risk without sustainable development’ .
    .....
    The 2030 Agenda thus calls for an unprecedented global shift in attention towards a reduction in violent deaths as a means of facilitating global development.

    The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, adopted by all United Nations Member States in 2015, provides a shared blueprint for peace and prosperity for people and the planet, now and into the future. At its heart are the 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), which are an urgent call for action by all countries - developed and developing - in a global partnership. They recognize that ending poverty and other deprivations must go hand-in-hand with strategies that improve health and education, reduce inequality, and spur economic growth – all while tackling climate change and working to preserve our oceans and forests.
    UN Sustainable Development Goals


    Do you know all 17 SDGs?
    Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development .:. Sustainable Development Knowledge Platform
    Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
    Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
    Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote wellJbeing for all at all ages
    Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
    Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
    Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
    Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
    Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
    Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
    Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
    Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
    Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
    Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
    Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
    Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
    Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
    Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development
    Milestones

    Will man accomplish it?
    Or...
    Are the problems too huge for man to solve?
    It seems the problems are too big for man, for a number of reasons - man's nature (Romans 1:28-32; 5:12; Galatians 5:19-21), and man's enemy (Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:12)
    Thus man needs a big hand.
    Has anyone shown themselves competent for the job? Yes.
    There is Concrete Evidence Jehovah's Will Successful get the Job done.

    Jehovah proves that he is successful at teaching his subjects how to live in peace.
    Isaiah 2:3, 4
    They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.
    Millions of JWs all around the world are learning from God how to be peaceable. (Matthew 5:9) Although they make up hundreds of different ethnic groups and live in over 239 different lands, they refuse to take up arms against their fellow man, and endeavor to be united in love, and thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

    However, the nations reject God's rulership - Psalms 2:1-3
    That's too bad though, because like it or not the earth belongs to Jehovah... and according to the Bible, he's taking over. So I guess that means... it's war!
    ...but first... a call for peace. ::D After all, Jehovah is a merciful God - abundant in loyal love and a lover of Justice.
    Psalm 2:4-12
    4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” ... 10So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

    The proud want's no peace with God though. So... Here are Jehovah's Decrees, as outlined in his word.
    What God’s Kingdom will do...
    Decree 1. Replace all human governments and rule over the entire earth. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14)
    Decree 2. Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. - Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:22.
    Decree 3. End all wars. - Psalm 46:9.
    Decree 4. Bring prosperity and security to the earth. - Micah 4:4
    Decree 5. Make the earth into a paradise. - Isaiah 35:1
    Decree 6. Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. - Isaiah 65:21-23.
    Decree 7. Eliminate disease and bring perfect health. - Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6.
    Decree 8. Set us free from the aging process. - Job 33:25.
    Decree 9. Bring the dead back to life. - John 5:28, 29.
    Decree 10. Unite all mankind in pure worship of the true God. (Jeremiah 16:20, 21)
    Decree 11. End all "natural" disasters. (Revelation 11:18) . . .to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
    From the Biblical perspective, and the way I see it, only Jehovah can succeed in ending poverty worldwide, and make it possible for all to have truly happy lives.

    Why Sudden Destruction at the cry of Peace and Security?
    'Cause man's rule is a failure, as is evident.
    No man can stop corruption - man himself is corrupt.
    I thought I had seen man in his cruelest form, until I saw the recent rodeo. Has anyone seen mafia's rodeo?
    I used to think that child sexual assault was man's height of sickness, until I saw this, but God only knows the unimaginable sick things man is doing, which I haven't seen... and probably is better off not seeing.
    What optimistic views do you have about stopping the level of corruption involved in the ongoing business of mafia's rodeo?
    Do you still think man can stop corruption?


    So Peace and Security it appears, will be a reality, but not by man.
    That's the way I see it. What are your thoughts?

     
    #1 nPeace, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  2. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Yeah. Way long.

    Nope 'n nope.
     
  3. Vouthon

    Vouthon In varietate concordia
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    The Canadian-American cognitive psychologist, Steven Pinker famously argued in his book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, that violence is on a downward trajectory in modern society.

    I don't know whether or not I agree, since I'd have to read his thesis more closely, but my understanding is that his argument has considerable support from many quarters.

    I do know that there remain a good number of serious threats to international peace and that the balance of power in world politics is still delicate.

    The passage you cite actually presupposes a period of peace and security that ends while those enjoying it are caught unawares. It does not specify the duration of the peace.

    The term Pax et securitas (Peace and Security) in the context of first century Thessalonica was one of the slogans of the Roman Empire, of the Pax Romana instituted by Caesar Augustus. Paul is here pointing to the "Day of the Lord" as the event that will shatter this peace and stability, following the manifestation of Antichrist - "the son of destruction".

    As Helmut Koester, James Harrison and others have argued, this passage should be read in light of the Roman imperial propaganda. The expression “peace and safety” (pax et securitas) was common during the era of the pax Romana (Roman peace).

    During this time period, people in the Roman Empire felt protected against barbarian attacks. The subjects uttering "peace and security" are, in the context, the Romans who trusted in theimmutability of their temporal “peace and security". Rome claimed to have brought peace to the world.

    Even the early church fathers understood the Empire to be the "katechon" described St. Paul, which restrained the advent of Antichrist and "lawlessness":

    St John Chrysostom Homily IV on Second Thessalonians II Thess.ii.6-9:

    "...Only there is one that restrains now, until he be taken out of the way, that is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God..."


    St. Bonaventure argues in his Collations on the Hexaemeron (1273):


    "...The seventh time or age, that of quiet, begins with the shout of the angel (Rev. 10:&-7)...It is necessary that One Ruler, a defender of the Church, arise...No one knows how long that time of great peace will last since ''when they said 'Peace and security,' then suddenly destruction came upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3)..."
     
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  4. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Nope, no theocracy for me.
     
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  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting.
    It's another view that some have.
    One interpretation holds that the cry of peace and security occurs well into the future - Paul says that it is "when they are saying", or "when they say".
    Usage: (denoting speech in progress), (a) I say, speak; I mean, mention, tell, (b) I call, name, especially in the pass., (c) I tell, command.

    Looking closely at the Greek expression, it seems to suggest, that it is more a proclamation, than a long experienced period of thought.
    We know from Revelation, that the Roman Empire was to be replaced by two successive kings, during the Lord's day.

    Understandably though, various interpretations abound.
     
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  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    So you accept imminent Sudden Destruction.
     
  7. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, if man is really in the image if God, then it should be easy. Otherweise, apart from looking like a hairless ape, it is not clear what being in the image of god really means.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  8. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    There is no imminent sudden destruction.
     
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  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone ever said to you, "You are just like your dad... or granddad... or brother?
    If your dad is a big muscular hunk, you might feel insulted.
    "What? Soft delicate, curvy me, looks like a bulky load of muscle?"
    I think the person would quickly apologize, and say, "NO, I meant your personality, not your appearance." :blush:

    According to the Bible, God made man in his image - that is, with his qualities, of love, justice, etc.
    That's why normally... I say normally, we have a sense of justice, and a desire for love - to love, and be loved... Um.... normally. :wink:
     
    #9 nPeace, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    How do you know?
     
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  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    In Torah, there's a mandate for us to try to do our best to protect the innocent even if it means using deadly force at last resort against those who try to do harm, and I honestly don't believe Jesus went against this defense mandate. To me, what he's opposing are offensive wars under Torah that could only be called for by a prophet.

    To the point, why would Jesus want us to not take action to defend the innocent? That would amount to selfishness since we would not be willing to act to save someone else because we are only worried about our salvation.
     
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  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what's the point you are making, and what it relates to.
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I thought it was clear, so I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer.
     
  14. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Does God feel the need to be loved?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  15. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    How do you know that there is?
     
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  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Matthew 16:25 whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it
     
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  17. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    So this thread is basically a Watchtower Society tract? It's not enough that you Witnesses go door-to-door to hand these things out, you have to preach your doom and gloom wherever you can, eh?
     
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  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Maybe the scripture peace and security isn't really a prophecy but a warning for people who get comfortable with their own righteousness. If you believe you are righteous with God because you enjoy peace and trust in God to save you but you are wrong and destruction comes, you will not be expecting it. It will come upon you unexpectedly or suddenly.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What is love?
    That has to be established first.
    Most people have a warped and corrupt view of what love is.
    The Bible says, "God is love." - 1 John 4:8

    However, I'm going to assume that I have an idea of what you have in mind when you use the word love.
    A person that has love for one thing, is not selfish.
    Therefore, the love that one has, is based on what is of the interest and benefit of everyone.
    Any love that person expects then, is not for self, but everyone involved.

    One has love.
    One has a little daughter.
    One will do all they can to benefit their daughter.
    Seeing that the daughter benefit herself, is the love one looks for.

    See 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 for the definition of love from a spiritual viewpoint (Note please that some words used are in the negative context)
     
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  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    :) I take it you don't know. It was obvious.
    I didn't say I know. :D
     
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