Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

[nPeace]

My thoughts.

Optimism runs high among many...
Will the Nations really bring Peace and Security, or will their cry spell Sudden Destruction?
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 

What we know...
CRIME & VIOLENCE
GLOBAL STUDY ON HOMICIDE 2013
Intentional homicide caused the deaths of almost half a million people (437,000) across the world in 2012.

Homicide rate
In 2015 an estimated 470 000 people worldwide were victims of homicide (global rate of 6.4 per 100 000).

Paying attention...
The Quest For Peace and Security
GLOBAL VIOLENT DEATHS 2017 - Time to Decide
.....
Approximately 560,000 people lost their lives violently in 2016, meaning that, on average, interpersonal or collective violence killed at least one person every minute of every day of the year. For every person killed, many others suffered devastating consequences.

Can man solve the problem...?
The UN's Agenda...

Spoiler: Agenda 2030 (Agenda 21)

At the global level, there is a growing desire to identify strategies to prevent violence and violent deaths. The international community recognizes the need to prioritize conflict prevention by tackling the root causes of tensions, helping to build and strengthen institutions, and ...
At the national level, a growing number of states have invested in promoting initiatives to prevent crime and violence (WHO, UNODC, and UNDP, 2014, p. 27).

The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development has the potential to usher in much needed changes. When world leaders gathered at the United Nations in September 2015 to adopt a landmark blueprint for global development, they recognized peaceful societies as a prerequisite for all 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) of the 2030 Agenda — and as a goal in its own right. In committing to Goal 16, all states pledge to promote ‘peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels’ (UNGA, 2015, p. 25). The 2030 Agenda is the first universal framework to make an explicit connection between violence, conflict, and development, stating that ‘sustainable development cannot be realized without peace and security; and peace and security will be at risk without sustainable development’ .
.....
The 2030 Agenda thus calls for an unprecedented global shift in attention towards a reduction in violent deaths as a means of facilitating global development.

The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, adopted by all United Nations Member States in 2015, provides a shared blueprint for peace and prosperity for people and the planet, now and into the future. At its heart are the 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), which are an urgent call for action by all countries - developed and developing - in a global partnership. They recognize that ending poverty and other deprivations must go hand-in-hand with strategies that improve health and education, reduce inequality, and spur economic growth – all while tackling climate change and working to preserve our oceans and forests.

UN Sustainable Development Goals

Do you know all 17 SDGs?

Spoiler: UN Goals

Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development .:. Sustainable Development Knowledge Platform
Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote wellJbeing for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development

Milestones

Will man accomplish it?
Or...
Are the problems too huge for man to solve?
It seems the problems are too big for man, for a number of reasons - man's nature (Romans 1:28-32; 5:12; Galatians 5:19-21), and man's enemy (Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:12)
[GALLERY=media, 8849]Problems by nPeace posted Jan 29, 2019 at 3:57 AM[/GALLERY]
Thus man needs a big hand.
Has anyone shown themselves competent for the job? Yes.
There is Concrete Evidence Jehovah's Will Successful get the Job done.

Spoiler: An Universal Educational Program that Is Effective...

Jehovah proves that he is successful at teaching his subjects how to live in peace.
Isaiah 2:3, 4
They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.
Millions of JWs all around the world are learning from God how to be peaceable. (Matthew 5:9) Although they make up hundreds of different ethnic groups and live in over 239 different lands, they refuse to take up arms against their fellow man, and endeavor to be united in love, and thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

However, the nations reject God's rulership - Psalms 2:1-3
That's too bad though, because like it or not the earth belongs to Jehovah... and according to the Bible, he's taking over. So I guess that means... it's war!
...but first... a call for peace. : After all, Jehovah is a merciful God - abundant in loyal love and a lover of Justice.

Spoiler: Call For Peace

Psalm 2:4-12
4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” ... 10 So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

The proud want's no peace with God though. So... Here are Jehovah's Decrees, as outlined in his word.
What God’s Kingdom will do...

Spoiler: Decrees of God's Kingdom

Decree 1. Replace all human governments and rule over the entire earth. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14)
Decree 2. Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. - Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:22.
Decree 3. End all wars. - Psalm 46:9.
Decree 4. Bring prosperity and security to the earth. - Micah 4:4
Decree 5. Make the earth into a paradise. - Isaiah 35:1
Decree 6. Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. - Isaiah 65:21-23.
Decree 7. Eliminate disease and bring perfect health. - Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6.
Decree 8. Set us free from the aging process. - Job 33:25.
Decree 9. Bring the dead back to life. - John 5:28, 29.
Decree 10. Unite all mankind in pure worship of the true God. (Jeremiah 16:20, 21)
Decree 11. End all "natural" disasters. (Revelation 11:18) . . .to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

From the Biblical perspective, and the way I see it, only Jehovah can succeed in ending poverty worldwide, and make it possible for all to have truly happy lives.

Why Sudden Destruction at the cry of Peace and Security?
'Cause man's rule is a failure, as is evident.
No man can stop corruption - man himself is corrupt.
I thought I had seen man in his cruelest form, until I saw the recent rodeo. Has anyone seen mafia's rodeo?
I used to think that child sexual assault was man's height of sickness, until I saw this, but God only knows the unimaginable sick things man is doing, which I haven't seen... and probably is better off not seeing.
What optimistic views do you have about stopping the level of corruption involved in the ongoing business of mafia's rodeo?
Do you still think man can stop corruption?

So Peace and Security it appears, will be a reality, but not by man.
That's the way I see it. What are your thoughts?

 

[WalterTrull]

Yeah. Way long.

Will man accomplish it?

Can you actually hear the pounding of the hooves

Nope 'n nope.

 

[Vouthon]

The Canadian-American cognitive psychologist, Steven Pinker famously argued in his book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, that violence is on a downward trajectory in modern society.

I don't know whether or not I agree, since I'd have to read his thesis more closely, but my understanding is that his argument has considerable support from many quarters.

I do know that there remain a good number of serious threats to international peace and that the balance of power in world politics is still delicate.

The passage you cite actually presupposes a period of peace and security that ends while those enjoying it are caught unawares. It does not specify the duration of the peace.

The term Pax et securitas (Peace and Security) in the context of first century Thessalonica was one of the slogans of the Roman Empire, of the Pax Romana instituted by Caesar Augustus. Paul is here pointing to the "Day of the Lord" as the event that will shatter this peace and stability, following the manifestation of Antichrist - "the son of destruction".

As Helmut Koester, James Harrison and others have argued, this passage should be read in light of the Roman imperial propaganda. The expression “peace and safety” (pax et securitas) was common during the era of the pax Romana (Roman peace).

During this time period, people in the Roman Empire felt protected against barbarian attacks. The subjects uttering "peace and security" are, in the context, the Romans who trusted in theimmutability of their temporal “peace and security". Rome claimed to have brought peace to the world.

Even the early church fathers understood the Empire to be the "katechon" described St. Paul, which restrained the advent of Antichrist and "lawlessness":

St John Chrysostom Homily IV on Second Thessalonians II Thess.ii.6-9:

"...Only there is one that restrains now, until he be taken out of the way, that is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God..."​

St. Bonaventure argues in his Collations on the Hexaemeron (1273):

"...The seventh time or age, that of quiet, begins with the shout of the angel (Rev. 10:&-7)...It is necessary that One Ruler, a defender of the Church, arise...No one knows how long that time of great peace will last since ''when they said 'Peace and security,' then suddenly destruction came upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3)..."​

 

[Woberts]

Nope, no theocracy for me.

 

[nPeace]

The Canadian-American cognitive psychologist, Steven Pinker famously argued in his book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, that violence is on a downward trajectory in modern society.

I don't know whether or not I agree, since I'd have to read his thesis more closely, but my understanding is that his argument has considerable support from many quarters.

I do know that there remain a good number of serious threats to international peace and that the balance of power in world politics is still delicate.

The passage you cite actually presupposes a period of peace and security that ends while those enjoying it are caught unawares. It does not specify the duration of the peace.

The term Pax et securitas (Peace and Security) in the context of first century Thessalonica was one of the slogans of the Roman Empire, of the Pax Romana instituted by Caesar Augustus. Paul is here pointing to the "Day of the Lord" as the event that will shatter this peace and stability, following the manifestation of Antichrist - "the son of destruction".

As Helmut Koester, James Harrison and others have argued, this passage should be read in light of the Roman imperial propaganda. The expression “peace and safety” (pax et securitas) was common during the era of the pax Romana (Roman peace).

During this time period, people in the Roman Empire felt protected against barbarian attacks. The subjects uttering "peace and security" are, in the context, the Romans who trusted in theimmutability of their temporal “peace and security". Rome claimed to have brought peace to the world.

Even the early church fathers understood the Empire to be the "katechon" described St. Paul, which restrained the advent of Antichrist and "lawlessness":

St John Chrysostom Homily IV on Second Thessalonians II Thess.ii.6-9:

"...Only there is one that restrains now, until he be taken out of the way, that is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God..."​

St. Bonaventure argues in his Collations on the Hexaemeron (1273):

"...The seventh time or age, that of quiet, begins with the shout of the angel (Rev. 10:&-7)...It is necessary that One Ruler, a defender of the Church, arise...No one knows how long that time of great peace will last since ''when they said 'Peace and security,' then suddenly destruction came upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3)..."​

That's interesting.
It's another view that some have.
One interpretation holds that the cry of peace and security occurs well into the future - Paul says that it is "when they are saying", or "when they say".
Usage: (denoting speech in progress), (a) I say, speak; I mean, mention, tell, (b) I call, name, especially in the pass., (c) I tell, command.

Looking closely at the Greek expression, it seems to suggest, that it is more a proclamation, than a long experienced period of thought.
We know from Revelation, that the Roman Empire was to be replaced by two successive kings, during the Lord's day.

Understandably though, various interpretations abound.

 

[nPeace]

Nope, no theocracy for me.

So you accept imminent Sudden Destruction.

 

[viole]

Or...
Are the problems too huge for man to solve?
It seems the problems are too big for man, for a number of reasons - man's nature (Romans 1:28-32; 5:12; Galatians 5:19-21), and man's enemy (Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:12)

Thus man needs a big hand.
Has anyone shown themselves competent for the job?
Yes.
There is Concrete Evidence Jehovah's Rule is Successful.

Spoiler: An Universal Education System that Proves Effective

Jehovah teaches his subjects how to live in peace. Describing the results of this instruction, the Bible says: “They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.” — Isaiah 2:3, 4.
Already, millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are learning from God how to be peaceable. (Matthew 5:9) Although belonging to many different ethnic groups and living in over 239 different lands, we refuse to take up arms against our fellow man, and endeavor to be united in love, and thought.

However, it's a hand the nations slap away - Psalms 2:1-3
That's too bad though, because like it or not the earth belongs to Jehovah... and he's taking over. So I guess that means... it's war!
...but first... a call for peace. After all, Jehovah is a merciful God - abundant in loyal love and a lover of Justice.
Psalm 2:4-12
4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father. 8 Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your possession. 9 You will break them with an iron scepter, And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.” 10 So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

What love Jehovah has.
...but we know what the response of the proud will be. So... Here are Jehovah's Decrees.
God’s Kingdom will ...

Spoiler: What Jehovah's Government WILL Do

1. Replace all human governments and rule over the entire earth. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14) Once that happens, God’s Kingdom will . . .
2. Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. “As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth.” — Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:22.
3. End all wars. “[God] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.” — Psalm 46:9.
4. Bring prosperity and security to the earth. “Everyone will live in peace among their own vineyards and fig trees, and no one will make them afraid.” — Micah 4:4, Good News Translation.
5. Make the earth into a paradise. “Thirsty deserts will be glad; barren lands will celebrate and blossom with flowers.” — Isaiah 35:1, Contemporary English Version.
6. Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. “The work of their own hands God’s chosen ones will use to the full. They will not toil for nothing.” — Isaiah 65:21-23.
7. Eliminate disease. “No resident will say: ‘I am sick.’” — Isaiah 33:24.
8. Set us free from the aging process. “Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.” — Job 33:25.
9. Bring the dead back to life. “All those in the memorial tombs will hear Jesus’ voice and come out.” — John 5:28, 29.
10. Unite all mankind in pure worship of the true God. (Jeremiah 16:20, 21) 20 Can a man make gods for himself When they are not really gods? 21 “So I will make them know, At this time I will make them know my power and my might, And they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.”
11. End all "natural" disasters. (Revelation 11:18) . . .to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

Very Soon Now, Jehovah's Kingdom will remove all causes of war, such as selfishness, corruption, patriotism, false religion, and Satan himself. (Psalm 46:8, 9) God’s Kingdom will end crime. Even today, it is teaching millions of people to love and trust one another. There is no other government that can do this. (Isaiah 11:9) Jehovah will soon end disease and make all people perfectly healthy. (Isaiah 35:5, 6) He will end poverty and make it possible for all to have happy lives and a close relationship with him. This is much more valuable than any amount of money. — Psalm 72:12, 13.
What Is God’s Kingdom? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

No man can stop corruption.
I thought I had seen man in his cruelest form, until I saw the recent rodeo. Has anyone seen mafia's rodeo?
I used to think that child sexual assault was man's height of sickness, until I saw this, but God only knows the unimaginable sick things man is doing, which I haven't seen... and probably is better off not seeing.
What optimistic views do you have about stopping the level of corruption involved in the ongoing business of mafia's rodeo?
Do you still think man can stop corruption?

Does anyone really think that God did not know what he was doing when he wiped out man, woman, and child... and beast?
Jehovah knew exactly what he was doing. Every act he committed was righteous and just.
His wisdom is far superior to man's.
Imo, those who think they know better than God, or that they are more righteous than him, are just living out a fantasy. hey are just fooling themselves with sorry excuses to side with their rebellious father.
As Jesus put it... "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. (John 8:44, 45)

The fact is though, when Jehovah acts, his people knows that
1. their God is incapable of injustice. (Deuteronomy 32:3, 4)
2. “the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad.” (Ecclesiastes 12:14)
3. Jehovah takes into consideration factors that are unknown to us.

There is a huge contrast between corrupt man, and Jehovah - the holy God.
Deuteronomy 32:3, 4
3 For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! 4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.

@Deeje @Hockeycowboy @URAVIP2ME @Vee

Spoiler: Did you guys know...

Did you guys know about Agenda 2030 (Agenda 21)?
I must have been living under a rock.
But... but, are you as excited as I am?
Can you actually hear the pounding of the hooves?

Habakkuk 2:3 For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!
Come Lord Jesus!

So Peace and Security it appears, will be a reality, but how, and by whom?

Well, if man is really in the image if God, then it should be easy. Otherweise, apart from looking like a hairless ape, it is not clear what being in the image of god really means.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Woberts]

So you accept imminent Sudden Destruction.

There is no imminent sudden destruction.

 

[nPeace]

Well, if man is really in the image if God, then it should be easy. Otherweise, apart from looking like a hairless ape, it is not clear what being in the image of god really means.

Ciao

- viole

Has anyone ever said to you, "You are just like your dad... or granddad... or brother?
If your dad is a big muscular hunk, you might feel insulted.
"What? Soft delicate, curvy me, looks like a bulky load of muscle?"
I think the person would quickly apologize, and say, "NO, I meant your personality, not your appearance."

According to the Bible, God made man in his image - that is, with his qualities, of love, justice, etc.
That's why normally... I say normally, we have a sense of justice, and a desire for love - to love, and be loved... Um.... normally.

 

[nPeace]

There is no imminent sudden destruction.

How do you know?

 

[metis]

In Torah, there's a mandate for us to try to do our best to protect the innocent even if it means using deadly force at last resort against those who try to do harm, and I honestly don't believe Jesus went against this defense mandate. To me, what he's opposing are offensive wars under Torah that could only be called for by a prophet.

To the point, why would Jesus want us to not take action to defend the innocent? That would amount to selfishness since we would not be willing to act to save someone else because we are only worried about our salvation.

 

[nPeace]

In Torah, there's a mandate for us to try to do our best to protect the innocent even if it means using deadly force at last resort against those who try to do harm, and I honestly don't believe Jesus went against this defense mandate. To me, what he's opposing are offensive wars under Torah that could only be called for by a prophet.

To the point, why would Jesus want us to not take action to defend the innocent? That would amount to selfishness since we would not be willing to act to save someone else because we are only worried about our salvation.

I am not sure what's the point you are making, and what it relates to.

 

[metis]

I am not sure what's the point you are making, and what it relates to.

I thought it was clear, so I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer.

 

[viole]

Has anyone ever said to you, "You are just like your dad... or granddad... or brother?
If your dad is a big muscular hunk, you might feel insulted.
"What? Soft delicate, curvy me, looks like a bulky load of muscle?"
I think the person would quickly apologize, and say, "NO, I meant your personality, not your appearance."

God made man in his image - that is, with his qualities, of love, justice, etc.
That's why normally... I say normally, we have a sense of justice, and a desire for love - to love, and be loved... Um.... normally.

Does God feel the need to be loved?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Woberts]

How do you know?

How do you know that there is?

 

[savagewind]

In Torah, there's a mandate for us to try to do our best to protect the innocent even if it means using deadly force at last resort against those who try to do harm, and I honestly don't believe Jesus went against this defense mandate. To me, what he's opposing are offensive wars under Torah that could only be called for by a prophet.

To the point, why would Jesus want us to not take action to defend the innocent? That would amount to selfishness since we would not be willing to act to save someone else because we are only worried about our salvation.

Matthew 16:25 whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it

 

[Jose Fly]

So this thread is basically a Watchtower Society tract? It's not enough that you Witnesses go door-to-door to hand these things out, you have to preach your doom and gloom wherever you can, eh?

 

[savagewind]

Maybe the scripture peace and security isn't really a prophecy but a warning for people who get comfortable with their own righteousness. If you believe you are righteous with God because you enjoy peace and trust in God to save you but you are wrong and destruction comes, you will not be expecting it. It will come upon you unexpectedly or suddenly.

 

[nPeace]

Does God feel the need to be loved?

Ciao

- viole

What is love?
That has to be established first.
Most people have a warped and corrupt view of what love is.
The Bible says, "God is love." - 1 John 4:8

However, I'm going to assume that I have an idea of what you have in mind when you use the word love.
A person that has love for one thing, is not selfish.
Therefore, the love that one has, is based on what is of the interest and benefit of everyone.
Any love that person expects then, is not for self, but everyone involved.

One has love.
One has a little daughter.
One will do all they can to benefit their daughter.
Seeing that the daughter benefit herself, is the love one looks for.

See 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 for the definition of love from a spiritual viewpoint (Note please that some words used are in the negative context)

 

[nPeace]

How do you know that there is?

I take it you don't know. It was obvious.
I didn't say I know.