Overcoming same-sex attraction

[Banner]

First of all, I never said that homosexuality is as undesireable, I was merely stating that if homosexuality almost impossible to get rid of, then every single sexual deviation known to man is.

Also, homosexuals die earlier deaths (due to disease) than smokers typically do. Tell me, does letting a person enter into a lifestyle that will KILL HIM QUICKER THAN A COUPLE OF CIGARETTES A DAY without telling him the consequences of his actions sound like LOVE AND TOLERANCE?

Second of all, if a homosexual wants to have a civil union, there is nothing I can do to stop him. I won't support his decision, however. And I won't support gay marriage, either.

Well you have a point about expecting a change in sexuality. Are you saying that you can change yourself into gay? Eliminate your attraction to females?

Your mistake is automatically assuming that homosexuality is a deviance.

 

[Banner]

I know I know, heterosexuality can't be changed because it's the "right" way. The way your god intended. But just stop for a moment and try to imagine the harmlessness of two (or more) consenting adults of the same gender deciding to sex it up. Imagine it involving no one else. The same way your sex is no one else's business. Is it such a deviance?

 

[waitasec]

I know I know, heterosexuality can't be changed because it's the "right" way. The way your god intended. But just stop for a moment and try to imagine the harmlessness of two (or more) consenting adults of the same gender deciding to sex it up. Imagine it involving no one else. The same way your sex is no one else's business. Is it such a deviance?

what's deviant...is budding ones nose in other peoples business as they display their controlling issues...it's called overcompensation.

 

[Agnostic75]

Does letting a person enter into a lifestyle that will KILL HIM QUICKER THAN A COUPLE OF CIGARETTES A DAY without telling him the consequences of his actions sound like LOVE AND TOLERANCE?

Many homsoexuals live past 65 years of age, especially those who practice safe sex, eat healthy foods, do not smoke cigarettes, do not abuse alcohol or drugs, and get enough excercise. Why should those homosexuals give up homosexuality, especially since that could lead to serious physical and emotional problems?

Celibacy is very difficult for many people, and even some supporters of reparative therapy have admitted that it works only about 30% of the time, and works best by far for religiously motivated people.

Interpreting statistics is often tricky. For example, hypothetically, if 100 heterosexuals, and 100 homosexuals, were studied regarding alcohol abuse, and 25% of homosexuals abused alcohol, and 10% of heterosexuals abused alcohol, the 25% figure can easily be misleading. Only about 15 of those homosexuals abused alcohol "because" they are homosexuals, not 25 since about 10 of those 25 homosexuals would have abused alcohol even if they were heterosexuals. So, a better comparison would be 15% - 10%, not 25% - 10%.

Here is another example of how interpreting statistics is often tricky. Let's say that we have a group of 100 heterosexuals, and another group of 100 homosexuals. If 1 heterosexual abused alcohol, and 10 homosexuals abused alcohol, homosexuals abused alcohol 10 times more than heterosexuals do, or 1,000% more, but 90, or 90% of homosexuals did not abuse alcohol. Therefore, it is quite important to also consider the “general population” of homosexuals, not just the "distressed groups" of homosexuals. Opponents of homosexuality usually fail to address the general population of homosexuals since that would make their statistics less impressive, and often with deliberate deception.

.......I never said that homosexuality is as undesireable, I was merely stating that if homosexuality is almost impossible to get rid of, then every single sexual deviation known to man is.

A good deal of evidence shows that homosexual desires and actions, and pedophilic desires and actions, are difficult to get rid of. How does that help this thread get anywhere?

Please define "sexual deviation." Would you call a 170 IQ a deviation from the norm?
Obviously, all deviations are not necessarily undesirable.

Personally, I believe that putting a lifestyle that kills people more quickly than smoking, drug use, obesity, etc is unethical. Face it, we talk about love and tolerance, but the only thing that does is let more homosexuals die. That does not sound like love and tolerance to me.

Many heterosexuals eat lots of greasy foods, smoke cigarettes, abuse drugs, are obese, waste thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical insurance and health care, and die before they are 50 years old. In your opinion, are those people unethical? If so, then being unethical is not a matter of ones' sexual preference.

What options have you provided for homosexuals that generally work well?

The majority of homosexuals do not have AIDS.

Lesbians have AIDS much less frequently than gay men do.

Logically, physical health, and character, are best judged on an individual basis, not on a collective basis.

From a scientific perspective, no intelligent case can be made against homosexual behavior, but an intelligent case can be made against unsafe sex, eating lots of greasy foods, abusing alcohol, abusing drugs, and smoking cigarettes regardless of a person's sexual preference.

 

[sojourner]

Isn't this what mental health evaluations do in general, though? Where do we draw the lines with these things? We currently like to draw them based on cultural norms and normative values, but neither of these are indicative of "fundamental wrongness."

I know I'm being a little over-critical here. I do have strong respect for the field of clinical psychology and therapy, but I also appreciate honesty that it is grounded in subjectivism.

In this case, though, homosexuality is not listed in the DSM as a disorder.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I tried desperately to "overcome" same sex attraction for nearly 20 years. The depression and severe self-loathing that ensued just about had me putting a gun in my mouth.

I remember those days quite clearly. I am much happier knowing that my orientation is just fine and dandy, thank you.

 

[Nakosis]

In another thread, nekoboy posted the following link:

Amazon.com: Born That Way?: A True Story of Overcoming Same-Sex Attraction With Insights for Friends, Families, and Leaders (9780875798356): Erin Eldridge: Books

So-called "reparative therapy" attempts to basically turn homosexuals into heterosexuals. Perhaps the leading exponent of reparative therapy in the U.S. is NARTH (National Association for Research and Therapy for Homosexuals).

I think they should spend their time working on a cure for heterosexual attraction. This would seem more in line with what Jesus taught. I think he advised people to avoid sex altogether. Just realize most couldn't handle it.

 

[nekoboy]

Thank you for ignoring the statistics I listed.

So, if you believe I am a bigot for having moral qualms about a lifestyle that results in the deaths of millions of homosexuals, due to disease and abuse in relationships, so be it. I would rather be a bigot than to have the blood of those men and women on my hands, all because I let them destroy themselves without saying a word.

 

[sojourner]

Thank you for ignoring the statistics I listed.

So, if you believe I am a bigot for having moral qualms about a lifestyle that results in the deaths of millions of homosexuals, due to disease and abuse in relationships, so be it. I would rather be a bigot than to have the blood of those men and women on my hands, all because I let them destroy themselves without saying a word.

You're forgetting that AIDS is now affecting more heterosexual black folks than it is homosexuals...

 

[connermt]

You're forgetting that AIDS is now affecting more heterosexual black folks than it is homosexuals...

Not forgeting, ignoring in an effort to "prove" its point.

 

[connermt]

Thank you for ignoring the statistics I listed.

So, if you believe I am a bigot for having moral qualms about a lifestyle that results in the deaths of millions of homosexuals, due to disease and abuse in relationships, so be it. I would rather be a bigot than to have the blood of those men and women on my hands, all because I let them destroy themselves without saying a word.

First, how is being gay killing "millions of homosexuals"? Where are the statistics to show that gay people are dead because they are gay? That is not only a bigoted but ignorant claim.
Second, no one really cares about your own internal moral dilemma as no one really holds you responsible for other’s actions in this matter. Get over your self-righteousness.

 

[connermt]

I think they should spend their time working on a cure for heterosexual attraction. This would seem more in line with what Jesus taught. I think he advised people to avoid sex altogether. Just realize most couldn't handle it.

No no no, you can't do that because looking at nature being straight is natural, being gay isn't (ignoring nature now) and because this would interfere with the lives of straight people. And we can't be havin' that now can we?!?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

First of all, I never said that homosexuality is as undesireable, I was merely stating that if homosexuality almost impossible to get rid of, then every single sexual deviation known to man is.

Also, homosexuals die earlier deaths (due to disease) than smokers typically do. Tell me, does letting a person enter into a lifestyle that will KILL HIM QUICKER THAN A COUPLE OF CIGARETTES A DAY without telling him the consequences of his actions sound like LOVE AND TOLERANCE?

Second of all, if a homosexual wants to have a civil union, there is nothing I can do to stop him. I won't support his decision, however. And I won't support gay marriage, either.

Homosexuality is not in anyway a sexual deviation nor paraphilia. It's a perfectly natural orientation.

Why just civil unions? Aren't homosexual citizens full citizens?

 

[connermt]

I suppress my own tendencies toward vorarephilia, and yet I am quite happy with the decision.

Also, I see too many examples of the pagan philosophy here, as described in Mainspring of human progress. Basically, the pagan philosophy is that man has no free will, he is a slave to his environment and instincts. This isn't true, and progress has come from realizing that man has been granted free will by God, over the environment and HIS BIOLOGICAL instincts. Man has had plenty of instincts to kill, commit rape, and act like a complete savage. And yet suppressing those BIOLOGICAL instincts has done more good than harm. Appeal to inherent nature is a logical fallacy.

Believers abuse children, steal, commit rape act like complete savages. By your own argument, the believer's god would be quite illogical then.

It's always amazes me when modern people think they know/understand a religion that started thousands of years ago by people who we slightly above savages, which has been edited numerous times, and has evolved along with society and culture. What's even more astounding is when these people try to tell other's what's right/wrong/natural with little to no knowledge of right/wrong/nature past their own book of stolen (or "shared") fairy tales.

 

[nekoboy]

First, how is being gay killing "millions of homosexuals"? Where are the statistics to show that gay people are dead because they are gay? That is not only a bigoted but ignorant claim.
Second, no one really cares about your own internal moral dilemma as no one really holds you responsible for other’s actions in this matter. Get over your self-righteousness.

They aren't dead because they are gay. They are dead because of diseases they picked up from whatever sexual activities they participated in. Thank you for ignoring the facts.
On The Unhealthy Homosexual Lifestyle

Unlike most of you, I am citing sources.

 

[Me Myself]

Here's a novel idea: If gays can't change, then there is no reason to believe that any other sexual deviant, like a pedophile, zoophile, or a necrophile can change. Instead of wasting time trying to rehabilitate them, how about we cut off their ****? Don't give them a chance! They will eventually commit rape!

The difference is that homosexuals have sex with consenting adults, for starters. So there is nothing inherently wrong with their behaviour.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The difference is that homosexuals have sex with consenting adults, for starters. So there is nothing inherently wrong with their behaviour.

And they are not sexually deviant in the first place!

 

[nekoboy]

The difference is that homosexuals have sex with consenting adults, for starters. So there is nothing inherently wrong with their behaviour.

Even though it is consenting, they are still causing serious harm to themselves.
On The Unhealthy Homosexual Lifestyle

 

[waitasec]

They aren't dead because they are gay. They are dead because of diseases they picked up from whatever sexual activities they participated in. Thank you for ignoring the facts.
On The Unhealthy Homosexual Lifestyle

Unlike most of you, I am citing sources.

with that line of thinking everyone should stop breathing

 

[Me Myself]

Even though it is consenting, they are still causing serious harm to themselves.
On The Unhealthy Homosexual Lifestyle

Bah, pretty much like a high risk sports then. They have the right to do it and they´ve accepted the risks. They are grown ups