One Saviour?

[Redemptionsong]

Unrelated to my last question, Leviticus 12 says that a woman who cannot afford a lamb, should offer 'two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a SIN offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.'
The woman does this after she has given birth.
Is the woman who does this CLEAN or UNCLEAN?

 

[Desert Snake]

Unrelated to my last question, Leviticus 12 says that a woman who cannot afford a lamb, should offer 'two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a SIN offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.'
The woman does this after she has given birth.
Is the woman who does this CLEAN or UNCLEAN?

Clean. it states as such in the verse.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ingledsva,
OK. One point at a time.
Will the Jewish Messiah, whoever you imagine that to be, be a perfect judge?

Depends on your meaning.

Would this Messiah be perfect? - Not likely as he is human.


Would he be a perfect JUDGE?


The Judging doesn't take place until after the Earthly events. - So?



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[Ingledsva]

Unrelated to my last question, Leviticus 12 says that a woman who cannot afford a lamb, should offer 'two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a SIN offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.'
The woman does this after she has given birth.
Is the woman who does this CLEAN or UNCLEAN?

She is Clean, - but you want us to say she was unclean before the offering.


However - it actually says -


Lev 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.


Supposedly there is no "seed" in this case. In fact "conceived seed" means conceived in sex.

Like Jesus she goes through the ritual offering - even though not needed.


So - 1. there is no sin in the first place - 2. she has the ritual anyway (like Jesus) cleansing herself, - and 3. one would assume her son as ultimate Sacrifice would cleanse her a third time; - can we assume she is SUPER CLEAN? LOL!



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[Redemptionsong]

Disciple, the woman is clean AFTER the sin offering has been made by the priest. That means, I understand, that she was unclean before the sin offering was made.
Do you agree?

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple, the woman is clean AFTER the sin offering has been made by the priest. That means, I understand, that she was unclean before the sin offering was made.
Do you agree?

Yes, I would assume so. it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Disciple, please turn to Luke 2:21-24. What does that tell you about Mary?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Ingledsva,
In an earlier post, you said:
'Basically - The Jews believe in ONE God - no one with, - no trinity.

They are awaiting their Messiah - a special/singular "human" - of the Line of David, - sent from God, - that will bring about the end - and final judgment.'

I asked you what you believed and you gave me this answer. You must therefore believe that the Messiah is going to act as judge at the final judgement.

Are you now going to tell me that you do not think that the Judge is going to judge perfectly? Is the judge going to show human frailty?

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple, please turn to Luke 2:21-24. What does that tell you about Mary?

I don't currently have a (real) Bible, so looking up verses takes longer. Just a heads up.

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple, please turn to Luke 2:21-24. What does that tell you about Mary?

Hmm not sure what you mean. It really doesn't tell us a lot.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Disciple, In Romans 3:9 it states clearly, 'for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;' This does, of course, include Mary.

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple, In Romans 3:9 it states clearly, 'for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;' This does, of course, include Mary.

Mary isn't 'sinless', as far as know. She's human. That's what makes Jesus obviously human in form. His Spirit was different though, which was sent by God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Luke 2: 21-24 shows that Mary complied with the law of Moses. I conclude, despite what Inglesva says, that Mary was sinful and imperfect. She is not worthy of worship and she is not the mother of God.

 

[Muffled]

Are we not saved through belief in his son?

I believe only if the Son is God himself.

 

[savagewind]

I believe salvation is believing The Son is from The Father and for The Father.

I don't think salvation is believing Jesus is for us. He is for us, but believing it is not what saves a person because he said "whoever will save his soul will lose it but he who loses it for my sake will find it".

If he is really for saving us then believing in his saving power would be for the saving of one's own soul which he said do not do.

 

[Nakosis]

Savagewind,
When Moses received the Torah it contained words about creation. Was Moses there to see creation?
When John received a prophecy about 'a new heaven and earth' (in Revelation) was he there?
Maybe 'this book' IS just a reference to Revelation. Yet Revelation itself contains the prophetic word of other books, so do we then extend the reference to those books too?
Once one sees that the Bible is a tapestry that cannot be unwoven it stops being sixty-six books and becomes 'this book'.
Once again, it's man's word versus God's word.

It is how you choose to see it. For me, I lack faith in the priests and scribes who were responsible for the authority of the Bible for the last 2600 years are so. People are people and I assume they had the same amount of freewill to err as anyone else. And, that's really a vested interest. The God which is portrayed by the OT doesn't meet my moral standards. I'd hope God has a lot more compassion then is apparent in the OT.

I can't follow/accept an idea of God which seems wrong to me. So I'm not going to try and convince you that your understanding of the Bible is in error. You have a right to your faith/belief is as much as the next fellow.

However in good faith I am pursuing that which seem to me to be the truth. I've nothing personally against Christians or the Bible. I don't need or expect you to accept my beliefs or ideas. I would hope though that you'd accept that I am doing the best I can to make sense of what is true.

 

[Ingledsva]

Disciple, the woman is clean AFTER the sin offering has been made by the priest. That means, I understand, that she was unclean before the sin offering was made.
Do you agree?

NOPE! See #144.


She doesn't fit the requirement for the sin offering.


She does the tradition anyway - just as Jesus was baptized - though neither needed to do so.


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[Redemptionsong]

Savagewind,
The passage you quote is about a person saving his earthly life only to lose his eternal life, compared to a true martyr who loses their earthly life but gains eternal life.

You've confused temporal salvation with eternal salvation. As it says in Matthew 16:26, 'For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?'

 

[Redemptionsong]

Nakosis,
All I'm trying to do is persuade you that there is a better way. That way is the person of Jesus Christ. I can say from personal experience that his life is for real. I'd love for you to know that resurrection life too.

 

[Ingledsva]

Disciple, the woman is clean AFTER the sin offering has been made by the priest. That means, I understand, that she was unclean before the sin offering was made.
Do you agree?

Yes, I would assume so. it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Actually it makes perfect sense. The TRADITION is of a sin cleansing for sex conceived seed!

Lev 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.


She supposedly has a miracle happen - NO SEX conceived SEED. No sin.


She does NOT fall under the law for SEX SEED.


However - the people think she has played around on Joseph, though he accepts the baby.


It behooves her to show the people that she follows the tradition.


Jesus didn't need to be baptized either - but he did it as a sign to the people, anyway.


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