One Saviour?

[Redemptionsong]

Unitarians believe in one God. So too do Christian Trinitarians.

Trinitarians say that there is one saviour - the Lord God.

Unitarians say that God is the Saviour. So is Jesus NOT Saviour?

 

[savagewind]

God is saviour. Psalm 23 Jesus is the anointed one. The Law was through Moses. Saving grace is through Jesus Christ.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Exactly!
So if saving grace is through Jesus Christ then Jesus Christ is our Saviour. He is the son of God on Earth (Holy Spirit in the flesh), now resurrected and one in spirit with the Father in Heaven.
Galatians 4:4-7 'But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.'
Father, Son (Word) and Holy Spirit! Hallelujah!

 

[Robert.Evans]

God is saviour. Psalm 23 Jesus is the anointed one. The Law was through Moses. Saving grace is through Jesus Christ.

Are we not saved through belief in his son?

 

[savagewind]

Exactly!
So if saving grace is through Jesus Christ then Jesus Christ is our Saviour. He is the son of God on Earth (Holy Spirit in the flesh), now resurrected and one in spirit with the Father in Heaven.
Galatians 4:4-7 'But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.'
Father, Son (Word) and Holy Spirit! Hallelujah!

OK. Then Jesus is God. Do you suppose maybe people should not lie about what Jesus actually said? Like what? Like they say Jesus said "get away from me you who are lawless" but God says "draw close to me and I will draw close to you". Also Jesus says "come to me all you who are toiling and loaded down". Loaded down with what? Isn't it loaded down with sin called lawlessness?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Unitarians believe in one God. So too do Christian Trinitarians.

Trinitarians say that there is one saviour - the Lord God.

Unitarians say that God is the Saviour. So is Jesus NOT Saviour?

There are many different levels of Truth. God is Truth. If God is the saviour, then who is Yahshuah??

 

[savagewind]

Are we not saved through belief in his son?

It is a beginning of saving power.

 

[Robert.Evans]

It is a beginning of saving power.

meaning what?

 

[savagewind]

meaning what?

Meaning to believe is not good enough. You must continue to believe him.

"He who has endured to the end will be saved" Matthew 24:13
The fine shepherd is Jesus Christ. Will you remain in the flock no matter what? You will be saved. It is faith in Jesus Christ the man that saves. To believe he existed is that which saves is ridiculous.

It is entirely possible the man Jesus did not exist. It is God's will he exists so he does.

 

[viole]

Are we not saved through belief in his son?

Not necessarily.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jainarayan]

Also Jesus says "come to me all you who are toiling and loaded down". Loaded down with what? Isn't it loaded down with sin called lawlessness?

That's far too literal and biased of an interpretation. They were loaded down with despair of life. The people of his time were less concerned with "salvation" than they were with scraping out a living. As Jews, they had their centuries old atonement rituals. Under the Romans, especially, they saw no hope of anything better than what they had. Jesus was saying to put their trust in him, that this life is not all there was.

 

[savagewind]

That's far too literal and biased of an interpretation. They were loaded down with despair of life. The people of his time were less concerned with "salvation" than they were with scraping out a living. As Jews, they had their centuries old atonement rituals. Under the Romans, especially, they saw no hope of anything better than what they had. Jesus was saying to put their trust in him, that this life is not all there was.

I do not disagree the essence of what he said is in recognition of their despair and toil. But what is the cause of despair and toil?

 

[Jainarayan]

But what is the cause of despair and toil?

The conditions of this world, conditions an individual rarely has control over.

 

[savagewind]

The conditions of this world, conditions an individual rarely has control over.

This is where we differ. Jesus had all control over everything. The weather, sickness even death but we are to have little or no control. Why please?

 

[Jainarayan]

Well, we further differ in that I don't believe Jesus had control over anything. I believe he was a great teacher, an enlightened person, perhaps what we'd call a yogi, but not God. In that case he was also subject to the vagaries of this world. But these are just my personal beliefs.

 

[savagewind]

Well, we further differ in that I don't believe Jesus had control over anything. I believe he was a great teacher, an enlightened person, perhaps what we'd call a yogi, but not God. In that case he was also subject to the vagaries of this world. But these are just my personal beliefs.

What is the Bible account? Did the writers lie?

 

[Jainarayan]

Bible account of what? That Jesus was a great teacher, an enlightened person? His teachings speak to that. No, I don't think the writers lied. I think they used metaphors and parables to illustrate concepts, as did Jesus. The people of his time and place were very simple; I doubt they would understand such lofty concepts. Most of them did not know how to read or write, so simple stories were probably the best way to get ideas across.

 

[savagewind]

Bible account of what? That Jesus was a great teacher, an enlightened person? His teachings speak to that. No, I don't think the writers lied. I think they used metaphors and parables to illustrate concepts, as did Jesus. The people of his time and place were very simple; I doubt they would understand such lofty concepts. Most of them did not know how to read or write, so simple stories were probably the best way to get ideas across.

What idea was the writer getting across with the story of the man's withered hand?

Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

Was there a man with a withered hand that was healed or not?

 

[Robert.Evans]

What idea was the writer getting across with the story of the man's withered hand?

Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

Was there a man with a withered hand that was healed or not?

Good point, tried to frubal, could not

EDIT:
Have you ever heard of Andrew Wommack? look him up

 

[Jainarayan]

Was there a man with a withered hand that was healed or not?

No, not a literal withered hand. It's a metaphor for being spiritually withered and having no "life" or faith. Through words or actions (but I don't take any miracles as literal, but rather, metaphorical), Jesus restored the man's spiritual life and faith. That is one aspect. The second aspect of the story is probably related to doing work of any kind on the Sabbath.

Btw, don't misunderstand and think I'm detracting from the sayings or teachings of Jesus. When I look at them I see past what people take as literal actions, and consider everything about them as having much deeper spiritual meanings. I think too much emphasis is placed on the miracles, and being ends in themselves. The deeper, and sometimes hard to find meanings are what let me count Jesus among the great teachers.