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ONA Satanic Points

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
I understand I could be ignorant here, because I do not know much about the ONA. I began to read the Black Book a while ago, and I didn't make it too far. I would appreciate any clarification anyone could offer on my thoughts which may be misguided. I have been keeping them to myself. A few of the satanic points set off alarm bells in my head such as:

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

I understand the concept of finishing your enemy. We are taught that in martial arts. If someone attacks you, you kill them as quickly as possible. If you are happy with anything less, as in peace, you risk finding a knife in your back at the attackers next opportunity.

This set off a small alarm though, because it states "never." The world would be a christian hell on earth if no one found happiness in peace. It would be a dam big hot bloody sad mess.

?

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

Is this a self growth kind of conquest, or external conquest? This rang an alarm bell, no offense intended. I could be reading it completely wrong.

"9. And die rather than submit."

This rang another alarm because these situations are an obstacle in which radical abrahamics respond the same way. This is reaching a brick wall, and giving up, extremely. I guess to try and prove a point. I don't understand the issue with submitting in order to dig under the brick wall, so that you can stand back up on the other side and get yourself out alive. You can make more of a difference alive rather than dead. When you allow yourself to die, you kill everything you had to potential to become, everything you had the potential to do, and the stronger points you could have made by manipulating your way out alive through submitting, simply to portray what you needed.

?

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

I am at a loss.

"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."

Once again, I am concerned and at a loss.



Take what I read and combine it with this that NoSpam pointed out, which I also read about, and there were too many alarms sounding in my head for me to continue at the time. I am sure that I am not seeing the whole picture, and I couldn't help but wonder if those points were put there for the sole reason of scaring people away.

Personally, I could study it, however, I would not feel comfortable belonging to an "organization" following such ideals because, how could you trust anyone enough to be in their presence without a weapon? I'd sleep with a gun under my pillow. It sounds like a brutal and bloody dick measuring contest of epic proportions.

As a read a little further, either on the website or in the book, I came across all the "rules."

I remember one being severe loyalty to the other members, and that the members must marry within themselves.

There were lots of examples of severe lifestyle control like this. Am I viewing this wrong? I understand control to potentially be very detrimental. All this struck me so funny for a group that I know must be advanced in many ways, from other things I have read.

Thanks for your time.




I've not read this thread yet, and I know nothing of the ONA but on reading your concerns I shall offer my interpretation of those points, from a Thelemic perspective... Thelema being the most advanced and mystical way of practising what you call 'Satanism', wherein the ultimate enemy is the unperfected self

I shall explain what these phrases mean:

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

Happiness is not to be found in sateity. Ever seek to attain victory after victory, but never rest in that happiness, for you must strive on to find yet another part of yourself to conquer.

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

See above.

"9. And die rather than submit."

Its all in the same theme... The war of victory and conquest is over oneself, in an never-ending pursuit to attain perfection. In my school we strive to 'die daily' as for us, every death is a rebirth... death is initiation.

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

See above. He who has been re-born the most times has the clearest view.... die daily.


"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."


This is all very Qabalistic - who are these ONA!?
Sorrow is a direct link to the Qabalistic Sephira of Binah - The Womb of Life. In Thelema the vision of Sorrow is the mark of the Magister... one who has crossed this Abyss whilst living - this is the Greatest of all Deaths.


I hope this helps.
 
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KHPR

Social Meritocratist
Just out of curiosity, who is running the ONA now? From my understand Myatt has become a Muslim.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
 
Just out of curiosity, who is running the ONA now? From my understand Myatt has become a Muslim.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

Myatt has written a few new essays and MSS under his own name recently stating that although he has learned much during his 12 years as a devout Muslim, he has returned to nurture his own The Numinous Way; which you may find on him Numinous Way website. Julie R. Wright of Oxford has also written a document recently stating that Myatt is not a Muslim anymore and has returned to being a Philosopher of The Numinous Way. This having been said...

The Old Guards and the "young guards" of the ONA got together recently and have made a few major changes with "Anton Long's" full approval. The first change to the ONA is that there is no such thing anymore as a "boss," "leader," "runner," "grand master," "controller," "head," "inner rep," or "outer representative."

The ONA is now leaderless. In support of this "Anton Long" has written a few ONA MSS in which he states that he is not the leader of the ONA. The ONA now functions kollectively via a "peerage" system, which peerage consists of all Initiates.

The second major change in the ONA is that it is now an "open source" system. Myatt or Anton Long's words and writings are not infallible, or authoritative. No one person now dictates what the ONA thinks or believes. Every Initiate now has the right and prerogative to change, evolve, alter, mutate, and add to the ONA.

The third change to the ONA is that there is no such thing anymore as some "formal," or "official," or "unofficial," or "informal," or some "recognized," or "unrecognized" membership in the ONA. If you like what you see: claim it, and Live it. If you don't like what you see: go away.

Therefore, the answer to your good question is: regardless of what Myatt was, or is, or will be, or isn't; Myatt neither owns or disowns the ONA. He neither runs or unruns the ONA. He is neither a member of or an unmember of the ONA. Nothing he writes is either unathuritative or authoritative. Nobody runs the ONA and everybody runs the ONA at the same time.

David Myatt will always have a big influence on ONA Initiates, and he will always be much Honoured and Respected by all ONA Initiates. But others now also have a big influence on the ONA, and every Initiate of the ONA - Old Guard or Young Guard - runs the ONA Kollectively as peers and has the individual and Kollective duty to change and evolve the ONA as they need and desire whenever, however, and for whatever reason.

The ONA is now like Empirical Science. It is an institution with theories based on the application of the Scientific Method and processed thru a peer review. Nobody owns or leads or runs Empirical Science. There is no such thing as a grand master of Science, or some Scientific Priest that expounds facts and authoritative doctrines to be sheepishly followed by some official card carrying member of Science. Yet the whole system, method, and institution works very well don't you think?

The way the institution of Science is "structured" in that the Scientific Method is the foundation of praxis, and not the dictates of some leader, allows for science to gradually evolve and progress replacing old and outdated theories with new ones.

Whereas with these old world religious institutions that utilize some old world caste system of grand master, middle management, yes men, card carrying members, such rigidly structured institutions that base their modus and cultus on some inert authoritative sacred text, have a hard time progressing, advancing, and staying relevant to the change of time, generations, and worldviews.

The great thing about the ONA is that on a Kollective level as a memetic organism, it is very open to learning from its past mistakes and struggles to change itself. It is also very open to learning from the wyrdful example of other institutions. It has learned that having a system like Empirical Science works best for it. Nobody runs it. It has its own Methodology and Sinister Method with which the Initiate may use to extract new ideas and insights which they can share with other.

.:.WSA.:.352.:.
 
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Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
I've not read this thread yet, and I know nothing of the ONA but on reading your concerns I shall offer my interpretation of those points, from a Thelemic perspective... Thelema being the most advanced and mystical way of practising what you call 'Satanism', wherein the ultimate enemy is the unperfected self

I shall explain what these phrases mean:

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

Happiness is not to be found in sateity. Ever seek to attain victory after victory, but never rest in that happiness, for you must strive on to find yet another part of yourself to conquer.

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

See above.

"9. And die rather than submit."

Its all in the same theme... The war of victory and conquest is over oneself, in an never-ending pursuit to attain perfection. In my school we strive to 'die daily' as for us, every death is a rebirth... death is initiation.

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

See above. He who has been re-born the most times has the clearest view.... die daily.


"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."


This is all very Qabalistic - who are these ONA!?
Sorrow is a direct link to the Qabalistic Sephira of Binah - The Womb of Life. In Thelema the vision of Sorrow is the mark of the Magister... one who has crossed this Abyss whilst living - this is the Greatest of all Deaths.


I hope this helps.

Thank you for that. I haven't read or studied anything about kabbalah yet, so of course my interest is peaked in that direction. I need to at least focus in one area at first though, before I move on over there. lol. If I read too much at once and think too much on too many things i think my head might explode. lol. I'm trying to be patient with myself and study this stuff right, but ever since I found... general occultism I guess, I am wildly fascinated by everything. It's like the little kid that realized there were shiny thingies to be found by digging in the beach sand. lol.
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
IF you want to understand Qabala, I recommend you start with this seriously funny and uniquely practical work:

The Chicken Qabalah - by Lon Milo DuQuette.

http://www.amazon.com/Chicken-Qabalah-Rabbi-Lamed-Clifford/dp/1578632153

This book will explain everything you need to know... and it will make you laugh.


I can recommend some excellent introductory books on 'general occultism' and if you ever have any questions Magick don't hestitate to ask

with sisterly love xx
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I think a more accurate way to say it would be - "Every man and every woman has the potential to Be a star." I think this is what Ipps. Crowley was actually trying to express. And for those who might be confused, the Word "Thelema"= "True Will" - is pruely a LHP Magickal philosophy.:bat:

Xeper!
/Adramelek\
 
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Octavia156

OTO/EGC
I think a more accurate way to say it would be - "Every man and every woman has the potential to Be a star." I think this is what Ipps. Crowley was actually trying to express. And for those who might be confused, the Word "Thelema"= "True Will" - is pruely a LHP Magickal philosophy.:bat:

Xeper!
/Adramelek\



Rather pessimistic view of your fellow man there, brother Adramelek... :p

You are wrong to be so pessimistic... every man and woman is a star... though most just don't Realise it.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Rather pessimistic view of your fellow man there, brother Adramelek... :p

You are wrong to be so pessimistic... every man and woman is a star... though most just don't Realise it.

Yes, I am rather pessimistic when it comes to people. And even though I sometimes refer to myself as a misanthrope I don't mean to come accross as someone who absolutely hates people because I don't. However, In my life experience I have witnessed both the best and the very worst in human beings... I am the kind of person in which one must earn my trust, I don't give it out freely. It may be "wrong" for me to be such a pessimist, however, right or wrong, I am an ultimate pessimist when it comes to my fellow man.:shrug:

Also, I must respectfully disagree with you my Sister when you say "every man and woman is a star." In my own understanding I hold that there are many (but not all) who have the potential within them to Become a star. Many such shining ones will come to realize it within themselves, while many others will not. It's simply the way it is at this point in this fledgling Age of Fire/Satanic Age/Aeon of Set.

Love under Will!

Xeper,
/Adramelek\
Knight of the Black Order
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Here are two other Satanic Laws of the ONA that I personally live by:

Test always your strength, for therein lies success.

and

Learn to raise yourSelf above yourself so you can triumph over all.

Their definitions I think are self evident.

Oh, I also like: Come as a reaper, for thus you will sow.
 
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Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Yes, I am rather pessimistic when it comes to people. And even though I sometimes refer to myself as a misanthrope I don't mean to come accross as someone who absolutely hates people because I don't. However, In my life experience I have witnessed both the best and the very worst in human beings... I am the kind of person in which one must earn my trust, I don't give it out freely. It may be "wrong" for me to be such a pessimist, however, right or wrong, I am an ultimate pessimist when it comes to my fellow man.:shrug:

Also, I must respectfully disagree with you my Sister when you say "every man and woman is a star." In my own understanding I hold that there are many (but not all) who have the potential within them to Become a star. Many such shining ones will come to realize it within themselves, while many others will not. It's simply the way it is at this point in this fledgling Age of Fire/Satanic Age/Aeon of Set.

Love under Will!

Xeper,
/Adramelek\
Knight of the Black Order

Ah dear Brother, we have unearthed another bone of semantic contention :cover:

Every man IS vs Every man has THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME.

I see your position as one that we all are in prior to incarnation - the potential to become is The Darkness from which we commence, As soon as we incarnate - a star ignites in that blackness.. and we fall to Earth.

The fact that we fall so far is the folly of existance. We are unaware of our true stellar nature. But whether he realise it or not - every man is still a star - for what else can he be having incarnated upon this Earth as a unique individual, but a Star in the Body of the Queen of Space?

see thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...dir/99504-stepping-out-old-aeon-into-new.html

I don't see good and bad people. For me the best and worst are the successful and the unsuccessful.

Every number is infinite, there is no difference.
Every man and woman is a star.
93,93/93
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Code:
Ah dear Brother, we have unearthed another bone of semantic contention :cover:

Every man IS vs Every man has THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME.

I see your position as one that we all are in prior to incarnation - the potential to become is The Darkness from which we commence, As soon as we incarnate - a star ignites in that blackness.. and we fall to Earth.

The fact that we fall so far is the folly of existance. We are unaware of our true stellar nature. But whether he realise it or not - every man is still a star - for what else can he be having incarnated upon this Earth as a unique individual, but a Star in the Body of the Queen of Space?

LOL. Perhaps I should have put it this way - Every man and every woman is a "potential" Star in the Body of Nu. However, I'm sure we won't agree on this either:p. But I still love ya. From my perspective, nobody is born a Shining One, but for some of us as we grow and eventually become aware of that limitless potential within ourselves, it is through the great Work of self-directed self-development i.e. Xeper, Initiation, it is through the striving to become more than just the sum of our parts which will Transform us into a preverbial bright shining new Star within the darkling universe that is the Body of Nu.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Knight of the Black Order
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
LOL. Perhaps I should have put it this way - Every man and every woman is a "potential" Star in the Body of Nu. However, I'm sure we won't agree on this either:p. But I still love ya. From my perspective, nobody is born a Shining One, but for some of us as we grow and eventually become aware of that limitless potential within ourselves, it is through the great Work of self-directed self-development i.e. Xeper, Initiation, it is through the striving to become more than just the sum of our parts which will Transform us into a preverbial bright shining new Star within the darkling universe that is the Body of Nu.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Knight of the Black Order

Excellent post Brother, On this point I am entirely in agreement :thud:finally we think we are speaking the same language :D
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Excellent post Brother, On this point I am entirely in agreement :thud:finally we think we are speaking the same language :D

I think it is safe to say that the same language was being spoken the whole time. It was just a matter of how you perceived his words.

I haven't read a lot about Thelma, but from what I have read, I agree with a lot of what it says, and most of it actually reminds me of Satanic philosophy.:D
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
I think it is safe to say that the same language was being spoken the whole time. It was just a matter of how you perceived his words.

I haven't read a lot about Thelma, but from what I have read, I agree with a lot of what it says, and most of it actually reminds me of Satanic philosophy.:D


Yes Satanic philosophy is very Thelemic... I'm sure you'd enjoy Crowley - he's got a wicked sense of humour ;)
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Crowley in my own opinion was indeed a Black Brother, though he may not have come to grips with it. He was by no means a white lighter. His great Understanding of what Magick Truly Is, is why many among us Hermetic LHPathers consider him a Black Brother of the Dark Arts.
 

Kori Houghton

Restricted
I never followed Dark Planet, so I have no idea how much activity there was on it.

But there are still many ONA or O9A blogs actively posting excellent stuff.

Here are links to two recent posts which are critiques of Crowley, Thelema, and the nature of the occult methods of Crowley-linked occultists, from the viewpoint of the ONA:

Sinister View of The Book of The Law « Sinister Times

Sinister Demonology « Anton Long: ONA

The ONA actually seems to 'get it' that a magical system is fundamentally flawed when all working with it are required to use ritual, symbolic, cultural elements specifically 'cursed' within its founding text. The magical equivalent of banging your head into a brick wall. :banghead3 Thelema never left the 'old aeon(s)' behind, and the reasons for that are nicely stated at the first link above.

I was wondering last night where I had seen a thread here where Thelema had intersected a discussion originally about ONA, so thank you for finding it for me, and bumping it up! I wanted to post these links in this thread, as a way of clearing out some Crowley Cobwebs.
 

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
I never followed Dark Planet, so I have no idea how much activity there was on it.

But there are still many ONA or O9A blogs actively posting excellent stuff.

Here are links to two recent posts which are critiques of Crowley, Thelema, and the nature of the occult methods of Crowley-linked occultists, from the viewpoint of the ONA:

Sinister View of The Book of The Law « Sinister Times

Sinister Demonology « Anton Long: ONA

The ONA actually seems to 'get it' that a magical system is fundamentally flawed when all working with it are required to use ritual, symbolic, cultural elements specifically 'cursed' within its founding text. The magical equivalent of banging your head into a brick wall. :banghead3 Thelema never left the 'old aeon(s)' behind, and the reasons for that are nicely stated at the first link above.

I was wondering last night where I had seen a thread here where Thelema had intersected a discussion originally about ONA, so thank you for finding it for me, and bumping it up! I wanted to post these links in this thread, as a way of clearing out some Crowley Cobwebs.

Very interesting stuff there! Its an odd coincidence that this morning I was thinking much the same thing, after reading warlockasylum's blog about the Simon Necronomicon. He goes on and on about the "Tree of Death" and the "Qlipphoth", and how they represent the powers of chaos and change, etc. And that to go LHP you simply see those vessels of darkness become light, and the lights become dark, blah blah.

However, one subtle thing seemed to have passed him by, and seem to pass alot of supposed "dark practitioners",...by using a system which is still based on the Judeo-Christian model of orthodoxy (like the Qabala), you are no less enslaved to it than you were had you been just a regular "RHP" mage. I mean hey, the Tree of Death and the Tree of Life are pretty much identical, just the names are changed and the images/totems, etc are all spooky-lookin.

Its almost as if its the same product, just re-labelled to advertise for a different audience. So, yeah, the ONA has definitely got this one pegged. However, I would note (playing devil's advocate here), that any genuine Magus would be able to work with either system equally, or reject them equally, as he/she decides. If a Magus really is beyond duality, then he/she could choose to see the light as dark, and the dark as light, to choose to be LHP or RHP or both/neither whenever he/she wished.
 
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