ONA Satanic Points

[Vasilisa Jade]

I understand I could be ignorant here, because I do not know much about the ONA. I began to read the Black Book a while ago, and I didn't make it too far. I would appreciate any clarification anyone could offer on my thoughts which may be misguided. I have been keeping them to myself. A few of the satanic points set off alarm bells in my head such as:

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

I understand the concept of finishing your enemy. We are taught that in martial arts. If someone attacks you, you kill them as quickly as possible. If you are happy with anything less, as in peace, you risk finding a knife in your back at the attackers next opportunity.

This set off a small alarm though, because it states "never." The world would be a christian hell on earth if no one found happiness in peace. It would be a dam big hot bloody sad mess.

?

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

Is this a self growth kind of conquest, or external conquest? This rang an alarm bell, no offense intended. I could be reading it completely wrong.

"9. And die rather than submit."

This rang another alarm because these situations are an obstacle in which radical abrahamics respond the same way. This is reaching a brick wall, and giving up, extremely. I guess to try and prove a point. I don't understand the issue with submitting in order to dig under the brick wall, so that you can stand back up on the other side and get yourself out alive. You can make more of a difference alive rather than dead. When you allow yourself to die, you kill everything you had to potential to become, everything you had the potential to do, and the stronger points you could have made by manipulating your way out alive through submitting, simply to portray what you needed.

?

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

I am at a loss.

"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."

Once again, I am concerned and at a loss.

The recent emphasis on "tribes" is not a promising sign.

Take what I read and combine it with this that NoSpam pointed out, which I also read about, and there were too many alarms sounding in my head for me to continue at the time. I am sure that I am not seeing the whole picture, and I couldn't help but wonder if those points were put there for the sole reason of scaring people away.

Personally, I could study it, however, I would not feel comfortable belonging to an "organization" following such ideals because, how could you trust anyone enough to be in their presence without a weapon? I'd sleep with a gun under my pillow. It sounds like a brutal and bloody dick measuring contest of epic proportions.

As a read a little further, either on the website or in the book, I came across all the "rules."

I remember one being severe loyalty to the other members, and that the members must marry within themselves.

There were lots of examples of severe lifestyle control like this. Am I viewing this wrong? I understand control to potentially be very detrimental. All this struck me so funny for a group that I know must be advanced in many ways, from other things I have read.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I personally find little redeeming value in ONA material.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I personally find little redeeming value in ONA material.

There must be redeeming value in some part of the ONA. The organization produces people with extraordinary intellect and satanic depth from the little I have seen. I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them... but they are unusual in that admirable way.

 

[Apion]

There must be redeeming value in some part of the ONA. The organization produces people with extraordinary intellect and satanic depth from the little I have seen. I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them... but they are unusual in that admirable way.

Not at all. From anything I've seen it's a one-manned website at best.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Not at all. From anything I've seen it's a one-manned website at best.

Interesting.

 

[SugaCubez352]

Not at all. From anything I've seen it's a one-manned website at best.

David Myatt is like Santa Claus: they both have the mystical power to be in every home and behind every website and WordPress They also both have beards.

 

[Kori Houghton]

But does Myatt care if we've been bad or good?

I've heard he'll put coal in your stocking if you've been good, but if you've been devilish enough you get a crystal :drool:

 

[SugaCubez352]

But does Myatt care if we've been bad or good?

I've heard he'll put coal in your stocking if you've been good, but if you've been devilish enough you get a crystal :drool:

LMAO! Mmmm... crystals.

Kay, this was my final post in RF

I'm out Kori Mwah!

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I have no qualms with looking into my own questions further in my own time. If I find out I was right, well, I wasted my time learning why my first impression was right. If I find out I was wrong, then I will probably learn of something effing awesome. One way or the other, I'll learn something. So I guess I really won't be wasting my time.

 

[Apion]

David Myatt is like Santa Claus: they both have the mystical power to be in every home and behind every website and WordPress They also both have beards.

Santa claus is coming...to-a-Mosque-near you...

 

[Orias]

I understand I could be ignorant here, because I do not know much about the ONA. I began to read the Black Book a while ago, and I didn't make it too far. I would appreciate any clarification anyone could offer on my thoughts which may be misguided. I have been keeping them to myself. A few of the satanic points set off alarm bells in my head such as:

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

Find solace in darkness, and within yourself.

I understand the concept of finishing your enemy. We are taught that in martial arts. If someone attacks you, you kill them as quickly as possible. If you are happy with anything less, as in peace, you risk finding a knife in your back at the attackers next opportunity.

Actually, in martial arts, the art of it is not fighting, but subduing the enemy. In a life threatening situation you kill, but if someone simply starts a fist fight with you it is not worth it. A person who has been trained in lets say Tae Kwon Do since he was three was taught to not fight back, simply because third degree or actually any certified kukiwan black belt is considered a lethal weapon and will be persecuted and charged with attempted man slaughter even if you fought back with only your fists.

But always remain vigilant, acknowledge the order of the universe.

This set off a small alarm though, because it states "never." The world would be a christian hell on earth if no one found happiness in peace. It would be a dam big hot bloody sad mess.

I wouldn't say it is the happiness in peace in which they find, but the happiness in their state of mind. But yes I agree with you 100% there, if no one could be happy among peace then the world would be a bloody mess.

?

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

Also, desire more than what they have fed you and create bliss worthy of envy.

Is this a self growth kind of conquest, or external conquest? This rang an alarm bell, no offense intended. I could be reading it completely wrong.

It is of both, for the mind desire gratifacation in physical and mental processes.

"9. And die rather than submit."

Or dominate instead of succumb.

This rang another alarm because these situations are an obstacle in which radical abrahamics respond the same way. This is reaching a brick wall, and giving up, extremely. I guess to try and prove a point. I don't understand the issue with submitting in order to dig under the brick wall, so that you can stand back up on the other side and get yourself out alive. You can make more of a difference alive rather than dead. When you allow yourself to die, you kill everything you had to potential to become, everything you had the potential to do, and the stronger points you could have made by manipulating your way out alive through submitting, simply to portray what you needed.

Well see here, conforming is necessary to gain what you want in some cases. But conformity among Satanism is looked down upon, for we are the rebellious amongst the flock. Do whatever it takes to gain the gratifacation of what you desire. I also find the part that I bolded and highlighted in your paragraph very, very true.

?

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

Ha, probably one of the most common philsophies of Satanism and that Anton LaVey himself often quoeted. Seek what is (the enigma of existence), the experience of life will over come the abistence of loss.

I am at a loss.

"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."

Once again, I am concerned and at a loss.

All great art is made from suffering. The strong and the few build off of what they have lost and create a gain and benefit from everything they go through and learn.

Take what I read and combine it with this that NoSpam pointed out, which I also read about, and there were too many alarms sounding in my head for me to continue at the time. I am sure that I am not seeing the whole picture, and I couldn't help but wonder if those points were put there for the sole reason of scaring people away.

It only scares the incompetent. No offense though...if you are easily scared, then LHP is not for you. You can acknowledge that fear is natural, but instead of fearing what you know, become what the others fear, and you will become what you know.

Personally, I could study it, however, I would not feel comfortable belonging to an "organization" following such ideals because, how could you trust anyone enough to be in their presence without a weapon? I'd sleep with a gun under my pillow. It sounds like a brutal and bloody dick measuring contest of epic proportions.

How very wrong of you to call them ideals. Satanism is a life loving philsophy and only the stupid and foolish fight each other over stupid and foolish 'ideals'. Look at it as the philosophy of philosophy.

As a read a little further, either on the website or in the book, I came across all the "rules."

I remember one being severe loyalty to the other members, and that the members must marry within themselves.

There were lots of examples of severe lifestyle control like this. Am I viewing this wrong? I understand control to potentially be very detrimental. All this struck me so funny for a group that I know must be advanced in many ways, from other things I have read.

Thanks for your time.

You seem very capable of understanding my friend. There really is no wrong way to view this, more of a misunderstanding of what Satanism is representing. Here is a good link...Church of Satan: The Official Web Site

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There must be redeeming value in some part of the ONA. The organization produces people with extraordinary intellect and satanic depth from the little I have seen. I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them... but they are unusual in that admirable way.

Oh I agree that some people claiming ONA ties seem intelligent enough, but that theology/agenda really has little or nothing to do with Satanism or Satanic philosophy . In fact I would go so far as to say the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

"3. Seek happiness in victory -but never in peace."

Find solace in darkness, and within yourself.

I understand that. I cannot grasp the connection between that and between that point... but hey, maybe it will click later.

I understand the concept of finishing your enemy. We are taught that in martial arts. If someone attacks you, you kill them as quickly as possible. If you are happy with anything less, as in peace, you risk finding a knife in your back at the attackers next opportunity.

Actually, in martial arts, the art of it is not fighting, but subduing the enemy. In a life threatening situation you kill, but if someone simply starts a fist fight with you it is not worth it. A person who has been trained in lets say Tae Kwon Do since he was three was taught to not fight back, simply because third degree or actually any certified kukiwan black belt is considered a lethal weapon and will be persecuted and charged with attempted man slaughter even if you fought back with only your fists.

But always remain vigilant, acknowledge the order of the universe.

In the system I was taught, the techniques were from a life or death combative standpoint. My Master said that if we could kill someone easily enough, it would be that much easier to subdue instead through restraint.

I am not a black belt. I only went for two years. I'm not trying to sound like a bad@@s. That is just the perspective from which we were trained. We started with a strangle hold with the forearm and then we learned the option of the rear naked. lol. They were effing crazy.

We were all actually people who didn't like to fight. We would only fight if our lives were being threatened, and that is the situation we trained for. We were restricted from participating in any fighting for sport or competition and if we were caught participating we would get kicked out. We were also advised of possibly being considered lethal in court as well.

It was a private class, not public. My boyfriend at the time was the instructor. That's how I got in.

"8. Strive for more, for conquest is never done."

Also, desire more than what they have fed you and create bliss worthy of envy.

Okay. That's pretty standard, and sane.

Is this a self growth kind of conquest, or external conquest? This rang an alarm bell, no offense intended. I could be reading it completely wrong.

It is of both, for the mind desire gratifacation in physical and mental processes.

Ah I see... What concerned me was the word "conquest." To me the word conquest connotes unsavory nasty goals of domination over others like.... the Crusades... WW2.... for instance. That was what I was concerned about although I doubted that was the impression intended.

"9. And die rather than submit."

Or dominate instead of succumb.

Of course! ha ha

This rang another alarm because these situations are an obstacle in which radical abrahamics respond the same way. This is reaching a brick wall, and giving up, extremely. I guess to try and prove a point. I don't understand the issue with submitting in order to dig under the brick wall, so that you can stand back up on the other side and get yourself out alive. You can make more of a difference alive rather than dead. When you allow yourself to die, you kill everything you had to potential to become, everything you had the potential to do, and the stronger points you could have made by manipulating your way out alive through submitting, simply to portray what you needed.

Well see here, conforming is necessary to gain what you want in some cases. But conformity among Satanism is looked down upon, for we are the rebellious amongst the flock. Do whatever it takes to gain the gratifacation of what you desire. I also find the part that I bolded and highlighted in your paragraph very, very true.

I understand. I do not "conform" unless I like something that is a part of the "conformity" that I desire and I must conform to obtain. I understand as well that you cannot solely focus on maintaining nonconformity because that can still spiral into a conformity among the nonconformists. I don't really think about it at all. I just do. lol.

That is really not what I was talking about though. It is the martyring. It is a waste. If you cannot dominate, you submit. You manipulate yourself. You conform, and then in under the guise of conformity you dominate. You control your surroundings and yourself to reach your goal. Martyring is losing control. That was what I was assuming that the point COULD be referring to. I was at a loss because I couldn't think of anything else it could be talking about. Maybe it means that if you are going to get killed anyway to go out fighting.

"13. He who stands atop the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest."

Ha, probably one of the most common philsophies of Satanism and that Anton LaVey himself often quoeted. Seek what is (the enigma of existence), the experience of life will over come the abistence of loss.

Oooooohhhh! Thank you. I wasn't putting two and two together.

"15. All that is great is built upon sorrow."

All great art is made from suffering. The strong and the few build off of what they have lost and create a gain and benefit from everything they go through and learn.

I wasn't putting two and two together there either. Wow....

I should know. I understand the value in hard truths, and the gain that comes from the pain.

I never said I was not dense at times. This is why I was asking for different perspectives.

I am sure that I am not seeing the whole picture, and I couldn't help but wonder if those points were put there for the sole reason of scaring people away.

It only scares the incompetent. No offense though...if you are easily scared, then LHP is not for you. You can acknowledge that fear is natural, but instead of fearing what you know, become what the others fear, and you will become what you know.

No offense taken. It did not scare me, it concerned me. I was drawing possible parallells between the points and radical ideas in other groups... in other words, it sounded like it could possibly be what LaVey called pseudo-satanism. I doubted this because it didn't match the people.

Personally, I could study it, however, I would not feel comfortable belonging to an "organization" following such ideals because, how could you trust anyone enough to be in their presence without a weapon? I'd sleep with a gun under my pillow. It sounds like a brutal and bloody dick measuring contest of epic proportions.

How very wrong of you to call them ideals. Satanism is a life loving philsophy and only the stupid and foolish fight each other over stupid and foolish 'ideals'. Look at it as the philosophy of philosophy.

Hmm, okay. I thought they were supposed to be like principles or something. Alrighty.

You seem very capable of understanding my friend. There really is no wrong way to view this, more of a misunderstanding of what Satanism is representing.

I am pretty sure that if I would have settled with my initial impression based on these points and some other things on their website and in the Book, I would have been doing what I would call viewing something wrong. My view would have been a misrepresentation of the collective groups view, which I try to avoid. So thank you for giving me nudge in the right direction.

You linked me to the CoS?? I know these two are related... but aren't they still different in many ways?

With this new perspective that only thing left I have to say is one of the same mild criticisms I found with The Satanic Bible...

I have to go get it. I wrote out a discussion about it quite a while ago...

*edit*

I forgot to give you props on this bada$$ quote:

You can acknowledge that fear is natural, but instead of fearing what you know, become what the others fear, and you will become what you know.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Here we go:

"Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!"
-page 33

I wanted to note this because this ideal is what gave me that first impression I spoke of. The origin of Anton Laveys thoughts most definitely come from a place of anger. This book was inspired by anger and outrage. That is not necessarily a bad thing. I do think it might have something to do with Laveys original ideas becoming warped into these different sects of "psuedosatanism" though. A lot of people only hear what they want to hear and practice lots of pick-n-mixism in the wrong places. This would be the wrong place to pick, and I think that is what happens. People just focus on the violence. The other bad thing about this statement is that it has a blind sense of wrath to it. No ones personal sovereignty is perfect, so no one should deal out wrath rashly as this book encourages. Lavey I believe had more faith in people than what he realized, speaking from an assumption of unblemished personal sovereignty like this.

Same thing. Satanism seems to rely on a persons personal sovereignty being matured. That is what alarms me usually... because when I read ideas... points... philosophies... whatever you want to call them, I think about the worst case scenario in regards to what they could generate in a humans mind. I need to work on my deep loathing for humanity. It might be beginning to skew my perception in an undesired fashion.

 

[Apion]

I need to work on my deep loathing for humanity. It might be beginning to skew my perception in an undesired fashion.

The trick is being aware of the distinction between group behavior and individual ones and adjusting generalizations accordingly. Not to mention by hating humanity, you're hating yourself along with it. When you start playing around with certain contemplative practices enough that it helps with the realization of the porous barrier between internal states and external experiences, how the later colors the former and vise-versa, it may start dawning how misanthropic grumblings are more of a hindrance than an asset.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I think I have addressed my own issue...

The value of personal soveriegnty is one of the primary tenets that sets satanism apart, so of course, why would it not be assumed?

I must be losing it. I am talking to myself and now I am also answering myself.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

The trick is being aware of the distinction between human group behavior and individual ones and adjusting generalizations accordingly. Not to mention by hating humanity, you're hating yourself along with it. When you start playing around with certain contemplative practices enough that it helps with the realization of the porous barrier between internal states and external experiences, how the later colors the former, it may start dawning how misanthropic grumblings are more of a hindrance than an asset.

That is very true, particularly what I underlined. That might explain more for me than just what I mentioned.

When I get lazy and let my "guard" down at work, this happens. I didn't even realize I was letting it happen. This last month has been absolutely horrible. It hasn't hapened in a long time. I have been getting pummelled by the scum of the earth... with my guard down. Actually, we all have this time. This month the red sea did not part with all the @ssholes making a bee line through the middle to just me, which happened a while back to my dismay. This month the sea never parted. They rowed across like vikings and attempted to burn us all to the ground.

Thank you Apion! If you were here I would kiss you... kindly on the cheek of course.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I can't help but wonder if something bad is going on this month. The other day while grabbing some groceries, as I walked up to check out the girl said to the bagboy, "Those people really creeped me out." --something something....

I didn't see them, but to try and be positive I said to her, "Aren't you glad you only have to see them for a few moments?"

She nodded of course. She had no idea I was saying that because I have to work with them for sometimes hours, and my living is dependant on thier cooperation.

It is more exposure than what I would consider withstandable at times. I am in the wrong profession. I will fix that in time.

 

[Orias]

Saint Tigeress

Look among the LHP and you will find many differences among theism, but the flow of blood among us is all the same.

The philosophies of life you encounter here may be greater than any other, and some may just take patience to link them together.

The brothers and sisters here, all value each other and carry a greater respect for our own kind than any other.

Among the flock we are the chosen few, bound to breathe the breath of the unholy, and place things into perfect accordance with the laws of nature.

The existence of thyself must be acknowledge, and the characteristics of emotions must also be acknowledge to carry yourself through the perilous strife that life brings with us.

Jesus is the fish, whom dwells in the water, which is existence, us. Be the water and then they depend on you.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Oh I agree that some people claiming ONA ties seem intelligent enough, but that theology/agenda really has little or nothing to do with Satanism or Satanic philosophy . In fact I would go so far as to say the two are mutually exclusive.

I missed this earlier. Thanks. I will keep that in mind.

Saint Tigeress:

From what I read here, your approach to the ONA is far more intelligent than that of most who find themselves attracted to it, these days. As you can see from the other thread here, as well as from its public presence, in general, the ONA has deteriorated mightily. Of course, even when it was a far more honorable and worthwhile little group, and consisted of more than mere Myatt-worshippers, I still had a healthy mistrust of it, and for good reason.

As far as the ONA's present public presence, the only presence here is just one or two. One of which reminded me of the people I used to run with in high school. Nice enough, but sugar coated venom. Petite and pretty (so it would seem), with brass knuckles, and above all, an overwhelming desire to always be one up and perceived as cut throat. I can only take that in doses, and I can't get a good idea from just a few people.

If you had a healthy mistrust then, I see that my mistrust from the little I have seen now must not be unfounded. I figured it wouldn't be, no matter which conclusions I reach about it.

Anyway, read some ONA MSs, take what you find of value from them, and then continue along your own way, forgetting that the ONA even existed. That's my best advice (and apologies for its being unsolicited!)

I will definitely read everything first and take what I find valuable. Whether or not I seek out the people would depend on what I find, and if there is anything else I want to find that I would need the people for. I'm sure there are still some chill people out and about somewhere if I ever needed to hunt them down.