First Baseman
Retired athlete
St. Paul says otherwise. Try 2 Timothy 3:16-17
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Old Testament versus New Testament
- Thread starter midopafo
- Start date
St. Paul says otherwise. Try 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
It's been a long time, God should put out a New New Testament where he reveals that human slavery is actually immoral and gay people are A-OK. I mean this God fella is worse than George R.R. Martin when it comes to dragging his feet on releasing his next book.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
You can't really compare them verse by verse.
The so-called "Old Testament" is a book describing how we can elevate ourselves to become more holy.
The so-called "New Testament" is a book teaching idol worship and paganism.
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
By beating slaves, stoning adulterers and selling your daughter to gangs of rapists?
I'm no fan of the New Testament either, but damn, the morality in the OT is just barbaric.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
How are you going to elevate yourself?
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
Air Jordans and an aggressive squat program.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
That might work.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
That's ridiculous. Lex Talionus is the foundation of our criminal justice system. If your Jesus freed you from the law, why do we have prisons? Lex Talionus means the laws of retaliation, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Are Christians free to murder, rape and Rob? And please don't tell me you keep the Ten Commandments, most Christians don't keep the Sabbath. If I was a Roman Catholic, maybe I could buy some indulgences to do whatever, then I could eat a cracker and sip wine and be forgiven. Come on, you got to be joking.
@Brian Schuh....That is a response to misreading everything I said. Please allow me to clarify....
It might interest you to know that there were no actual prisons in Israel. The law was about justice, compensation, and rehabilitation, not just punishment.
Someone found guilty of a capital offense was put to death, which meant that they would never re-offend. Knowing the law before you commit the crime means that justice demands its stated penalty.
Those guilty of lesser offenses had to work to compensate their victim many times over, which was a deterrent to future offenses and didn't leave the victim out of pocket. The present justice system is a far cry from what God instituted in Israel. Imagine if the perpetrator actually had to compensate their victims instead of being given accommodation and meals at their further expense. Israel's justice system was very fair.
The punishment was always in keeping with the severity of the crime. When Jesus came he did not cancel the law, but "fulfilled it", meaning that when he introduced "the law of love" (to love God with our whole heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves) it was impossible to break that law without breaking the old law. This did not pertain to ceremonial law or dietary laws, but to the things basically mentioned in the 10 Commandments....false worship, idolatry, adultery, murder, theft, covetousness, etc. The law of love precluded those offenses.
Christians are supposed to follow the example set by Jesus.....how many "Christians" actually do that? What we are not free to do, is obey only the convenient laws and disregard the things we find difficult. If you are going to call yourself a Christian, you better know that it requires you to keep ALL of Jesus' commands. He will accept no excuses. (Matt 7:21-23)
For Christians, there was no requirement to keep a Sabbath. This was for Jews and they were still free to observe it if they wished, but it was not required for Gentile Christians to keep Jewish law. They did not need to be circumcised, observe Jewish festivals, or to refrain from eating "unclean" foods. The "necessary" requirements were set out by the governing body in Jerusalem. (Acts 15:28, 29)
I don't believe that Christendom represents true Christianity in any way.....so I might have to agree with you somewhat on this point.
It might interest you to know that there were no actual prisons in Israel. The law was about justice, compensation, and rehabilitation, not just punishment.
Someone found guilty of a capital offense was put to death, which meant that they would never re-offend. Knowing the law before you commit the crime means that justice demands its stated penalty.
Those guilty of lesser offenses had to work to compensate their victim many times over, which was a deterrent to future offenses and didn't leave the victim out of pocket. The present justice system is a far cry from what God instituted in Israel. Imagine if the perpetrator actually had to compensate their victims instead of being given accommodation and meals at their further expense. Israel's justice system was very fair.
The punishment was always in keeping with the severity of the crime. When Jesus came he did not cancel the law, but "fulfilled it", meaning that when he introduced "the law of love" (to love God with our whole heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves) it was impossible to break that law without breaking the old law. This did not pertain to ceremonial law or dietary laws, but to the things basically mentioned in the 10 Commandments....false worship, idolatry, adultery, murder, theft, covetousness, etc. The law of love precluded those offenses.
Christians are supposed to follow the example set by Jesus.....how many "Christians" actually do that? What we are not free to do, is obey only the convenient laws and disregard the things we find difficult. If you are going to call yourself a Christian, you better know that it requires you to keep ALL of Jesus' commands. He will accept no excuses. (Matt 7:21-23)
For Christians, there was no requirement to keep a Sabbath. This was for Jews and they were still free to observe it if they wished, but it was not required for Gentile Christians to keep Jewish law. They did not need to be circumcised, observe Jewish festivals, or to refrain from eating "unclean" foods. The "necessary" requirements were set out by the governing body in Jerusalem. (Acts 15:28, 29)
I don't believe that Christendom represents true Christianity in any way.....so I might have to agree with you somewhat on this point.
Tumah
Veteran Member
What is the comparison? "An eye for an eye" is a judicial concept. "Forgive your enemies" is a personal one. They don't relate.
Right on ! Finally someone saw it.
However it was forgiveness of enemies, even to those who would give us death that was absolutely necessary to our own forgiveness and salvation. Perhaps we who repent should ask the same of those we forgive ? And if they don't repent ? Are we still obligated ? I think not, nor will I forgive unrepentant enemies ? Let the fires of justice consume them.
And I do not believe for one second that God differs from His Law of Justice, the punishments are there as spelled out. It is also personal with Him to forgive a repentant heart.
Last edited:
Tumah
Veteran Member
You seem to be making a Christian theological view, into a statement of fact. I'm not sure why. But since it doesn't relate to Judaism, I'll just leave it for other Christians to deal with.
Not sure why ? Perhaps Judaism and Christianity are from the one and same God .
Tumah
Veteran Member
But since I'm Jewish, I take the position that no, they are not.
Tumah
Veteran Member
You forgot to attach a question to your question mark. But anyway, yes, you're misleading label aside, I'm aware that Christians see the NT as a continuity of the Tanach.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
I think they are in agreement, but the New Testment fulfills and intensifies
Both love of god and wrath of God are ratcheted up in the New Testament as DA Carson points out
I see the Old Testament as the shadow of the one coming and Jesus the one casting the shadow
Both love of god and wrath of God are ratcheted up in the New Testament as DA Carson points out
I see the Old Testament as the shadow of the one coming and Jesus the one casting the shadow
allfoak
Alchemist
The first example has horns and the second has wings.
Can't have one without the other.
The devil has both.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
By following G-d's Laws to the best of my ability. Anyone can follow suit.