OK, Let's Do This: Homosexuality

[The Wizard]

Pushing around "no choice" and "born gay" faith pills can possibly aid towards the creation of homosexual orientations through suggestive and influencial processes around confused and disturbed youth... Quite simply, it offers another path for them when they are most confused or susceptible to suggestion and peer pressures, or simply having uncontrollable sex urges or loneliness, etc. Furthermore, that junk also prevents those who desire a change from pursuing and achieving their own wishes.. after all they have no choice. Correct? Like the "born alchoholic" trying to quit drinking- no choice- its strictly genetic, so don't blame them, why bother or question it. Obey your master gene, you've got to be insane. There are studies and documents of people who change their orientation and of those who desire easier change of such orientations. Here, I'll ask some of my usual questions. If one can't answer such questions satisfactorily and with certainty, using the same standards they demand from others, then it displays just how much one actually knows about the subject or how bias and ignorant they may be.. possibly just believing everything just because some scientist says so...blind faith, indoctrination perhaps? Ready? 1. Exactly how does someone conclude with certainty that they are born gay as opposed to just being confused, issues or having troubles? Where or how do they even differentiate it for theirself? How is the line drawn? How is their alleged born gay situation proven to them beyond a shadow of a doubt? Does one have any idea how that is supposed to work accurately without misinterpretation, outer suggestions, personal issues and influences interferring? Not possible? Then explain it. What would you say to those who have changed their orientation? Those who have made a transition, yet believed they were "born gay" at one time? They certainly exist as documented. They also aren't lying to theirself or unhappy.
So, how does this fit into the "born gay-no choice" idealogy without sticking one's foot in their own mouth when confronting them? Explain it. 3. What would you say to those who want their change of orientation to be easier and more flexible through advancements in science, therepies and knowledge in the future? Can you support their pro-choice views or will you beat them over the head with a "people are born gay and you have no choice" bible? Ignore them as usual. They don't exist perhaps. Yes? Of course, change is going to happen and become an easier choice for those who desire for it? That is the nature of choice- control- it expands throughout all areas within a certain time. So, what would a "no choice" promoter say about that coming scenerio or to those who have already changed through the choice to self-develop? What would you say to them if they were standing right in front of you? Oops, I must have missed something? 4. How is some vaige and alleged genetic orientation unable to be successfully changed through desire, will, choices and self-development? For some reason people think this factor completely dominates the capacity of ALL humans to change things and self-develop if desired. If one is so certain then they should be able to explain and prove it instantly with no problem. So,explain it. Does the dogma NOT make things more complicated if not impossible for those who can change their orientations if desired. No? Then explain how so. How are choices of direction, orientation and development NOT involved as a person ponders his/her own sexuality in the beginning? They are self-aware people right? So, how is decision and choice NOT involved in the process as people seem to think it isn't. One can make choices at every moment. It then becomes a direction and process of growth and development. So, how does this fact suddenly become irrelevant and exempt as soon as homosexuality is mentioned? Explain it. 6. How does "born gay" and "no choice" dogma NOT create mistakes and self-misinterpretations for confused and troubled people, youth? Can one even prove it doesn't with certainty? Explain it. Know what you're talking about if you want to be taken seriously. These important questions should be easily answered and explained from one's own brain if one knows what they are talking about and not just parroting science sources. Yes? No? Maybe? Have fun...

 

[Draka]

yeah monogomus is the big word.
nobody explain that bisexual relationship stuff with me.
I really could care less but I am being jumped on in chat over it.
given what you are saying it is possible for a heterosexual person to be in a bi sexual relationship because of their partners orientation despite the fact that they are heterosexual??

I've never heard of someone calling a relationship homosexual or heterosexual or so on. The people in a relationship are homosexual or heterosexual etc. Not the relationship.

 

[jelly]

well I have heard of it.
pretty common too.
have you ever heard of homosexual marriage?

 

[Vendetta]

As a member of the APA myself, I do agree that homosexuality isn't a choice and cannot be classified as a mental disorder as it was previously. However, to play devil's advocate and in Yosi's defense, can you provide an actual peer-reviewed article along with your explanation of the results?

Also has anyone heard of being bi-curious or having homosexual tendencies as being a "sexual fad" rather than a concrete orientation among youths? I have

 

[Pegg]

1) Homosexuality is not a choice, according to both neuroscience and the APA. Deal with it.

ETA: Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains

2) It's not unnatural. It's rampant in the animal kingdom, and whether you like it or not, humans are animals.

3) It's not immoral. It's not comparable to pedophilia, bestiality, or incest. What part of informed consent do you people not understand?

4) No one's shoving it down your throat. Queer pride is a counter-movement with the goal of educating people so they'll stop forcing THEIR "lifestyle choices" down OUR throats. If you'd leave us alone, we'd do the same.

:rainbow1:

you are free to live the life you choose, God has granted you and everyone else that freedom. I agree with you that religious people should not condemn you for your choice...any who do, are acting in ignorance of Gods own word which tell them to 'Stop Judging'. You also dont need to continually come up with reasons for your choices as if those reasons are going to change any ones mind, because they will not. Peoples minds are already made up.

But you can be a homosexual under your own roof. Just as others can decide if it is acceptable under their own roof....i think thats fair all round then. It would be unfair though, if homosexuals were attempting to force people to accept homosexuality as acceptable. You need to let people feel the way they want to, just as you should be allowed to feel the way you want to.

 

[Vendetta]

Thank you.

Funny how none of our local bashers have shown up.

Also in yosi's defense this can be considered bait

 

[jelly]

I have heard all kinds of crazy things.
I even heard somebody not qualifying their relationships leaving me to guess that every relationship is sexual in nature (which kinda throws out platonic relationships...).

 

[jelly]

... It would be unfair though, if homosexuals were attempting to force people to accept homosexuality as acceptable. You need to let people feel the way they want to, just as you should be allowed to feel the way you want to.

so homosexuality is unacceptable even as a feeling?

 

[monta]

Don't post angry, at best it achieves nothing, at worse it is counter productive.

 

[jelly]

let us start a flame war.
you go first.

 

[Pegg]

so homosexuality is unacceptable even as a feeling?

What i'm saying is its unacceptable to me personally. It may not be to you. And both of us are entitled to our own belief of the matter.

 

[jelly]

yeah personally it may not be, but then again I don't look at my sexuality in terms of acceptability.
I don't go around rejecting my feelings because my feelings are wrong.
why is it unacceptable to you?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

i think thats fair all round then. It would be unfair though, if homosexuals were attempting to force people to accept homosexuality as acceptable.

It would be unfair IF they were doing that.

 

[Pegg]

yeah personally it may not be, but then again I don't look at my sexuality in terms of acceptability.
I don't go around rejecting my feelings because my feelings are wrong.
why is it unacceptable to you?

its unacceptable to me for various reasons...the first and foremost though is because God created man and woman to be a pair. He never intended for men to be with men, or women to be with women.

because I have submitted to Gods view, I cant possible accept that differing standard.

 

[Pegg]

It would be unfair IF they were doing that.

considering it has become politically incorrect to openly express that you dont like homosexuality, i would disagree.

 

[jelly]

its unacceptable to me for various reasons...the first and foremost though is because God created man and woman to be a pair. He never intended for men to be with men, or women to be with women.

because I have submitted to Gods view, I cant possible accept that differing standard.

couldn't it be more simple, like admitting you do or don't have homosexual feelings?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

considering it has become politically incorrect to openly express that you dont like homosexuality, i would disagree.

Which part of gay people asking for equal rights as equal citizens would you consider forcible intervention to make you accept homosexuality?
Also, how is being frowned upon because someone made a socially retarded comment forcibly changing their view on homosexuality?

 

[Pegg]

couldn't it be more simple, like admitting you do or don't have homosexual feelings?

there are some homosexuals who believe their feelings are based on 'love', not 'sex'

so I think its a bit more complicated then that. I certainly wouldnt want to simplify it to the point of making it about sex and nothing more.

 

[jelly]

well at some point a feeling is involved, why not address the feeling whether it be homosexual or heterosexual?

 

[Pegg]

Which part of gay people asking for equal rights as equal citizens would you consider forcible intervention to make you accept homosexuality?

now you are talking about a political issue, not a personal one.

Also, how is being frowned upon because someone made a socially retarded comment forcibly changing their view on homosexuality?

im sure many people feel obliged to hide their true feelings about homosexuality. There is a stigma attached to people who dont like it such as 'homophobes' and 'socially retarded'

So people are forced to accept it or be vilified for expressing their true feelings.