Obama sends in 30000 troops to Afghanistan

[.lava]

Don't worry. The Taliban will do a great job of making sure the pain doesn't stop once the US military leaves.

don't let it be so easy to forget about Iraq




.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Going to war is not being willing to die for your country; it's being willing to kill for it.

Violence cannot be a solution to violence.

 

[dogsgod]

Going to war is not being willing to die for your country; it's being willing to kill for it.

Violence cannot be a solution to violence.

That's true. No one goes into war because they believe they are going to die.

 

[Caladan]

Going to war is not being willing to die for your country; it's being willing to kill for it.

No soldier plans to die for his country. you spend months or years training to kill the other poor *******.

Violence cannot be a solution to violence.

sometimes, just sometimes, bending over is not the solution either. there are several examples throughout history in which violence WAS the solution 100%. and no sugar coated slogans would make that reality go away. when leaders bended over to Hitler because they thought he could be appeased he invaded other nations, eventually the use of force combined with military genius brought peace to Europe and other parts of the world. as for Afghanistan and Iraq, there is no doubt that these campaigns are not the embodiment of effective confrontation with terrorism, but at the end of the day someone has to monitor and contain international terrorism. some phenomena are not going to go away if we keep greeting them with the mantra 'we come in peace'.
this is reality as it has always been. everyone have to get their hands dirty.

 

[Aquitaine]

No soldier plans to die for his country. you spend months or years training to kill the other poor *******.

sometimes, just sometimes, bending over is not the solution either. there are several examples throughout history in which violence WAS the solution 100%. and no sugar coated slogans would make that reality go away. when leaders bended over to Hitler because they thought he could be appeased he invaded other nations, eventually only brute force and another huge humiliation to the German nation brought peace to Europe and other parts of the world. as for Afghanistan and Iraq, there is no doubt that these campaigns are not the embodiment of effective confrontation with terrorism, but at the end of the day someone has to monitor and contain international terrorism. some phenomena are not going to go away if we keep greeting them with the mantra 'we come in peace'.
this is reality as it has always been. everyone have to get their hands dirty.

Humanity has tried the violent approach to solving problems 99.99% of the time, yet our species is still a total joke.

Also, about WWII, I've heard many people suggest that WWI and the conditions of the post-war treaties we're some of the biggest contributors to WWII and Hitler's rise to power. It seems violence only breeds more violence.

With regards to Afghanistan, if we want to be safe from Terrorists then we need to work on Nation Security and border control, along with many other domestic issues. I don't see how deploying troops into Afghanistan is going to make my country any safer. No dissrespect to the Soldiers of course, their selflessness is worth more than gold, it's just a shame it's being abused and manipulated into fighting useless wars.

 

[Caladan]

Humanity has tried the violent approach to solving problems 99.99% of the time, yet our species is still a total joke.

No one says that military action is the ideal answer and solution for any given problem. but at some point it is the appropriate method of dealing with a problem. btw too bad you think that the people around you are a joke.. must be a sad town to live in.

Also, about WWII, I've heard many people suggest that WWI and the conditions of the post-war treaties we're some of the biggest contributors to WWII and Hitler's rise to power. It seems violence only breeds more violence.

I'm afraid your entering a loop of circular reasoning here. whatever the reasons are for the rise of the third Reich, once it has started its quest for European domination, only a coalition and military campaigns could stand in its way.

 

[Aquitaine]

No one says that military action is the ideal answer and solution for any given problem. but at some point it is the appropriate method of dealing with a problem. btw too bad you think that the people around you are a joke.. must be a sad town to live in.

More for the entire species and our inability to, well, actually look after ourselves. We're nothing but a bunch of superstitious, Xenophobic, war-mongering polluters. I see very very few scenarios where military action is justified, the only one I can think of is when a people are literally fighting for survival from an unreasonable foe: that certainly isn't the case with Afghanistan.

I'm afraid your entering a loop of circular reasoning here. whatever the reasons are for the rise of the third Reich, once it has started its quest for European domination, only a coalition and military campaigns could stand in its way.

One of the few wars that were actually justifiable in my opinion, and of course, unfortunately only war could stop the Nazis back then. It's just a shame the Rulers of 1914-18 thought the same for WW1.

Anyways, I'm starting to derail, but back to the topic-at-hand: Afghanistan, it's not a fight for survival and waging this war won't make us any safer. There's no point in Governments frightening it's own Citizens of Terrorist death-threats and convincing them to fight to prevent it, when more of it's people are dying from lack of Healthcare, poor living standards, drug abuse and Criminals.

I have more chance of being killed by a thug operating on my street than a terrorist from Paki/Afghanistan.

 

[Caladan]

Anyways, I'm starting to derail, but back to the topic-at-hand: Afghanistan, it's not a fight for survival and waging this war won't make us any safer. There's no point in Governments frightening it's own Citizens of Terrorist death-threats and convincing them to fight to prevent it, when more of it's people are dying from lack of Healthcare, poor living standards, drug abuse and Criminals.

I have more chance of being killed by a thug operating on my street than a terrorist from Paki/Afghanistan.

I largely agree. these are questionable military campaigns with a lot of political dishonesty behind them.

 

[Aquitaine]

I largely agree. these are questionable military campaigns with a lot of political dishonesty behind them.

So.... you do support the idea of Coalition operations in Afghanistan, you just don't think they're currently being executed in an efficient way for combatting terrorism?

Do you support Obama's decision to send these additional troops?

 

[Valjean]

How many American wars, of late, have really been for "our country," or even for abstractions like 'freedom?"

American soldiers aren't serving their country. They're fighting for corporate and political dominance, prestige, empire, pax americana.

 

[Aquitaine]

How many American wars, of late, have really been for "our country," or even for abstractions like 'freedom?"

American soldiers aren't serving their country. They're fighting for corporate and political dominance, prestige, empire, pax americana.

It's a great shame when you consider the selflessness of people, who believe their homeland is under attack, and they volunteer to risk their lives for others....... only for them to be manipulated into fighting, as you said, Political and Corporate wars.

I think it's a very dark sinister abuse of such honourable courage and willingness to defend others, and preserve one's society.

 

[Caladan]

So.... you do support the idea of Coalition operations in Afghanistan, you just don't think they're currently being executed in an efficient way for combatting terrorism?

Now that Coalition forces are deeply involved on the ground the campaigns need to be resolved. either you bring the troops back home, or you professionally and efficiently go on with realistic objectives, the worse thing to do is go into a war of attrition with an indigenous force who knows the territory in and out.

Do you support Obama's decision to send these additional troops?

If Obama is serious in a successful campaign, then the answer is yes.

 

[xkatz]

It's a great shame when you consider the selflessness of people, who believe their homeland is under attack, and they volunteer to risk their lives for others....... only for them to be manipulated into fighting, as you said, Political and Corporate wars.

I think it's a very dark sinister abuse of such honourable courage and willingness to defend others, and preserve one's society.

I couldn't agree anymore with what you said there. I especially feel bad because most of these people volunteer not only for their country (which is awesome) but they also do it for their friends/families out of love and respect. I think that the enemy is not only the Taliban and the terrorist, but the incompetent politicians who don't really care about the lives and well-beings of these soldiers.

 

[Aquitaine]

Now that Coalition forces are deeply involved on the ground the campaigns need to be resolved. either you bring the troops back home, or you professionally and efficiently go on with realistic objectives, the worse thing to do is go into a war of attrition with an indigenous force who knows the territory in and out.

But, wouldn't you say it's realistic to expect this issue to be engaged in on multiple fronts? I mean tihnk of Pakistan, and funding fro SA and Iran etc, the whole thing is so complex, that it would require a massive, very long, international effort, to not only stabilize Afghanistan and give it an Economy, but to also clean up Pakistan, and stop weapons trading from the richer Muslim countries etc. I honestly thing it's easier, and more sensible to just pull out. I'd never have gone into Afghanistan in the first place to be honest.

If Obama is serious in a successful campaign, then the answer is yes.

And what would that accomplish (if) they're successfull, and for how long will the success remain? Other countries like the US and USSR have intervened in Afghanistan in the past, and they failed. Will it make you, the average Israeli, any safer after all that fighting, after all the lives lost, the war gear and money spent? Will it stop Israeli murderers, rapists, Peadophiles - will it stop rocket attacks into Israeli territory?

 

[Sunstone]

It's a great shame when you consider the selflessness of people, who believe their homeland is under attack, and they volunteer to risk their lives for others....... only for them to be manipulated into fighting, as you said, Political and Corporate wars.

I think it's a very dark sinister abuse of such honourable courage and willingness to defend others, and preserve one's society.

I agree.

 

[Aquitaine]

I couldn't agree anymore with what you said there. I especially feel bad because most of these people volunteer not only for their country (which is awesome) but they also do it for their friends/families out of love and respect. I think that the enemy is not only the Taliban and the terrorist, but the incompetent politicians who don't really care about the lives and well-beings of these soldiers.

Pretty-much, and it's always been that way. Tony Blair is the true enemy of Brits, and Bush is the true enemy of Americans. Of course, it's not only those two individuals, but the many Politicians involved in the whole thing.

Soldiers get treated like dirt in the UK, they get paid pennies, and are given shoddy war-gear, as well as get sent to useless wars.

I honestly don't see how our prescence in Afghanistan is going to make life safer for the average Brit. If we want to be safer, then let's sort out border control, national security, the Economy, Employment, Education, living-standards etc etc.

But no, Politicians arn't interested in that kinda stuff, instead they wanna go invade countries like Iraq so that corporations like Halliburton can take all the Oil for profit.

 

[Caladan]

But, wouldn't you say it's realistic to expect this issue to be engaged in on multiple fronts? I mean tihnk of Pakistan, and funding fro SA and Iran etc, the whole thing is so complex, that it would require a massive, very long, international effort, to not only stabilize Afghanistan and give it an Economy, but to also clean up Pakistan, and stop weapons trading from the richer Muslim countries etc. I honestly thing it's easier, and more sensible to just pull out. I'd never have gone into Afghanistan in the first place to be honest.

Of course its very complex. but the US has always been involved, we might see American troops in Afghanistan only for a few years now, but America has played a huge role in the victory of the Mujahideen over the Soviets. the US can't create a vacuum, it has always been involved.

And what would that accomplish (if) they're successfull, and for how long will the success remain? Other countries like the US and USSR have intervened in Afghanistan in the past, and they failed.

These are lessons the Americans have not taken to heart yet.

Will it make you, the average Israeli, any safer after all that fighting, after all the lives lost, the war gear and money spent?

The American campaigns have zero relevance to Israel. they are based on American interest. I don't expect it to change any detail of my life whatsoever.

Will it stop Israeli murderers, rapists, Peadophiles - will it stop rocket attacks into Israeli territory?

Get a grip Rusco. the war is about you if you are an American, it's not about me.

 

[Aquitaine]

Get a grip Rusco. the war is about you if you are an American, it's not about me.

So then why do you support the continuing prescence of Coalition troops over there, along with Obama's 30,000 additional troops to be deployed - providing he's serious about a successfull campaign?

Besides, the safety of the average American or Brit will not be improved by this war, no more than yours would as an Israeli.

 

[Caladan]

So then why do you support the continuing prescence of Coalition troops over there, along with Obama's 30,000 additional troops to be deployed - providing he's serious about a successfull campaign?

Besides, the safety of the average American or Brit will not be improved by this war, no more than yours would as an Israeli.

Hey this is an internet forum, we are discussing and debating. Im free to voice my opinions without reservation and without anyone questioning whether my motives are Kosher or not.
I already answered your question a few posts earlier.

 

[Aquitaine]

Hey this is an internet forum, we are discussing and debating. Im free to voice my opinions without reservation and without anyone questioning whether my motives are Kosher or not.

I already answered your question a few posts earlier.

Fair enough, I'll drop it.

I wasn't trying to interrogate you, or change your opinion, I'm just trying to understand the viewpoint of those who support the war.