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Obama sends in 30000 troops to Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by xkatz, Dec 3, 2009.

How do you feel about the surge

  1. It is a bad idea. It will only make things worse in the long run.

    15 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. It is a good idea. We can save Afghanistan and stave off terrorism.

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  3. I don't know what you're taking about.

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  4. I don't care.

    3 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. xkatz

    xkatz Glory to God!

    Messages:
    4,015
    What do you think about the troop surge into Afghanistan?

    To me personally I think it is absolutely STUPID. I think the problems are:

    1) Cost. We are in a recession and this will only make things worse and we will be further in debt.

    2) Lives. We will suffer only more causalities as the war escalates.

    3) Pointless in the long run. Although it may help stabilize the region for a bit, it won't be permanent. Afghanistan has been going in a downward spiral politically for quite some time. Eventually the nation will go into turmoil. All things are impermanent as the Buddha said.

    So what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  2. Gunfingers

    Gunfingers Happiness Incarnate

    Messages:
    1,357
    He put an 18 month withdrawal time. It's, like, in the article.
     
  3. xkatz

    xkatz Glory to God!

    Messages:
    4,015
    My bad :sorry1: :eek:
     
  4. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    47,115
    I think that it's a good thing if the Taliban are weakened, an Afaganistan government that can defend itself, and Osama is killed.
     
  5. xkatz

    xkatz Glory to God!

    Messages:
    4,015
    I think he might be dead. Even if he is killed it won't make much of a difference.
     
  6. Just_me_Mike

    Just_me_Mike New Member

    Messages:
    8,706
    Might as well title it Obama sends 30,000 body bags to Afganastan...
     
  7. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    47,115
    It would to me.
     
    Mister_T likes this.
  8. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    47,115
    :eek:


    ......

    Since 2001, with approx. 55k USA troops.... plus help ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)
    Afghan security forces:

    6,000+ killed[14]

    Northern Alliance:
    200 killed[15][16][17][18][19]

    Coalition:
    1,533 killed (US: 930, UK: 236, Other Coalition: 367)[20]
    7,874+ wounded (US: 4,434,[21] UK: 2,864,[22] Canada: 360,[23] Germany: 132, Australia: 84[24])

    Contractors:
    139 killed
    10,569 wounded (to 2007/03)[25]

    Total: 7,872+ killed

    ------

    Enemy losses are about 23k deaths.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  9. Seyorni

    Seyorni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,283
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    What's to be accomplished? What do the National Army and Police Force have to fight for?

    Vietnamization didn't work. I doubt Afghanization will either, and for similar reasons.
     
  10. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    47,115
    So we have 930 of our 55k troops dead in almost ten years of fighting. Obama is not sending 30k men and women to their deaths. Get a grip.
     
  11. Just_me_Mike

    Just_me_Mike New Member

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    8,706
    Now, did I imply the bags were for the US troops only? Either way it is sick what we are doing...
     
  12. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

    Messages:
    19,503
    It's only ugly when Bush does it?

    The.....: "this is something I inherited" is starting to get a bit fuzzy when you start quacking like the duck you replaced.


    I think a time table is stupid. It's an excellent gesture toward the enemy who can gather it's resources around a date.

    I'm still not sure what exactly 30,000 troops are supposed to accomplish exactly.
     
  13. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,220
    Well we started it.

    That's the best I can do until I get something to eat and take something for this sinusitis.
     
  14. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Messages:
    11,110
    Obama addressed the cadets at West Point Academy. My favorite part of the speech was when the camera panned to get the cadets reaction and some were asleep. Classic. I heard that this footage was removed from subsequent reviews. And yes, billions of tax payers dollars will be spent on this venture. Someday I would like to vote for a government who actually knows how to manage money.
     
  15. Seyorni

    Seyorni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,283
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Billions for "defense," nothing for domestic welfare
     
  16. dogsgod

    dogsgod New Member

    Messages:
    3,872
    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
     
  17. dogsgod

    dogsgod New Member

    Messages:
    3,872
    .







    Quote: "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. "




    - - Barack Obama, October 27, 2007​
     
  18. Evee

    Evee New Member

    Messages:
    237
    But hey, there's no doubt that a war is GOOD for the economy. How'd the world get out of the LAST depression?
    Anyway, leaving now would be like 'Nam all over again. At least if you send more in, you've got a better chance at accomplishing something. Although if you ask me, it's not all about the size of your force, but how you use it.
     
  19. Mr Spinkles

    Mr Spinkles Mr

    Messages:
    10,861
    I don't know exactly what to think but here are some thoughts.

    The situation is completely backwards, it seems to me that if (and this is a big "if") the Afghan government represents the people then it is their decision, not our decision, whether or not to send more troops. And there is no reason those troops have to be U.S. troops, once a government has been established they can ask NATO or the UN for peacekeeping forces if they want them, we invaded to overthrow the Taliban (success) and capture Bin Laden (failure). There is also no reason we have to prevent a civil war indefinitely, or preserve the unity of Afghanistan indefinitely, it might be more natural to form a coalition of governments in the various provinces that more naturally follow city vs. rural and ethnic lines. Please keep in mind that most Afghans want a peaceful settlement between the Afghan Taliban and everyone else. The central government's police and army is totally corrupt, commits atrocities, and the central government does nothing to help the poor rural areas. The fear that people bring up is that a Taliban regime might arise all over again that harbors terrorists and stomps on human rights. If it is a *popular* Taliban regime we have to encourage human rights nonviolently, and if it threatens the U.S. in any way the US could crush the regime in an instant all over again, they know this, they cannot be that stupid.

    If OTOH the central government does not represent the Afghan people, we should support a nationwide referendum to establish a new government and provide security so the fanatics cannot kill and intimidate voters.

    At the end of the day we had a reason for invading Afghanistan: overthrow the Taliban (because they harbored Bin Laden) and get Bin Laden. That's over now, now we only have a responsibility: don't leave without helping the people build their own government and security. That doesn't mean prevent a civil war forever or create a perfect government, with perfect human rights as we view them, or even preserve Afghanistan in its present form.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  20. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    47,115
    :rolleyes:
     
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