Not Illegal Enough

[SigurdReginson]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Great thread topic!

I want to mull this over a bit more, but my initial thought is that my line lies where there is harm of another or the probable of harm of another.

You've given me something to occupy my mind during my route today.

 

[Estro Felino]

I do believe that the first thing a jurist learns is that "not all crimes are equal before the law". There are crimes of slight entity, there are serious crimes and so on.
If we are speaking of crimes of slight entity... well...I guess indulgence is spontaneous. It is due.

But as a Christian I have a deep sense of justice and I want serious crimes to be strictly punished.
Like for example, if a pedophile harms a child...or if a driver runs over a person and then hides the body without calling the ambulance (A case I talked about recently).
I really care because I empathize with the victims.
PS: I am against the death penalty...I am for justice ...not for revenge.


The Gospel says "Blessed are those who thirst for justice, for they will be filled".

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Great thread topic!

I want to mull this over a bit more, but my initial thought is that my line lies where there is harm of another or the probable of harm of another.

You've given me something to occupy my mind during my route today.

That exercise is already used in practice in psychology:
Heinz dilemma - Wikipedia

 

[Rival]

Being from the countryside we tend to be more 'This is our problem let us deal with it', so there are quite a few things I wouldn't call the police over.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

I once as a civil servant broke the rules because of a dilemma. One of my bosses said it was correct. Another said it was wrong.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I once as a civil servant broke the rules because of a dilemma. One of my bosses said it was correct. Another said it was wrong.

I think we all choose to turn a blind eye towards some things we witness in life simply because it would feel wrong to interfere. It seems different people draw different lines at different points, though.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Being from the countryside we tend to be more 'This is our problem let us deal with it', so there are quite a few things I wouldn't call the police over.

I can understand that. People in smaller communities have closer bonds with each other, and it's important to work things out with the people you see day in and day out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

Very unfortunate I've come to custom of not interacting when I see something I can't intervene and not life threatening to be involved. If I've seen anything I don't remember. If I were on a authoritative position to intervene, I would.

Watching a woman shoplift with her baby I wouldn't report. I don't know that woman's back story and can't assume.

I've learned that a lot of people here are insulted of you people in general, ask them if they want money and you offer food or just offering anything doesn't keep in mind a few have jobs but no homes. It truly depends on how you go about it.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's a complicated subject for me. One time, I watched as a man shoplifted from Walmart. The man was tall and slender. A Walmart security guard was chasing him, who was short, fat, and not very fast. As the man shoplifting was running by me, I realized I could have just stuck my leg out and tripped them, getting him caught by the security guard. But I didn't. I'd probably end up at worst in jail over it, because good deeds don't go unpunished, or at best, I'd walk away from it with a thank you from Walmart, and the satisfaction I saved a multi billion dollar corporation like $5. But the fact is, I don't really care if someone shoplifts from a store in front of me, I'm not going to try to be a hero over it - I just won't be doing any shoplifting myself.

 

[SigurdReginson]

It's a complicated subject for me. One time, I watched as a man shoplifted from Walmart. The man was tall and slender. A Walmart security guard was chasing him, who was short, fat, and not very fast. As the man shoplifting was running by me, I realized I could have just stuck my leg out and tripped them, getting him caught by the security guard. But I didn't. I'd probably end up at worst in jail over it, because good deeds don't go unpunished, or at best, I'd walk away from it with a thank you from Walmart, and the satisfaction I saved a multi billion dollar corporation like $5. But the fact is, I don't really care if someone shoplifts from a store in front of me, I'm not going to try to be a hero over it - I just won't be doing any shoplifting myself.

Yaaahhhh... Honestly, I don't really feel bad about Walmart losing out on $5; especially when they are one of the prime perpetuators of slavery in the world right now. Screw those guys.

 

[AlexanderG]

I think there are some laws that are senseless, and are selectively enforced against groups that society or police disfavor. Marijuana possession laws are a good example of this, as well as laws or policies around how restaurants dispose of unused food. Wage theft vs. shoplifting, etc etc.

If I see someone breaking a law such that no one is harmed and the perpetrator appears to be in desperate need of the benefit they accrue by their action, then I wouldn't intervene.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I had another story too. I worked for a grocery store. They sold alcohol. Teenagers would come in at night and steal the alcoholic drinks. If the employees tried to catch them, the teens would try to beat the employees up. After a few incidences of this happening to others, we were coached by the employer to never stop them trying to steal, as our safety was more valuable, to just let them steal and let the company's inside and outside investigations and litigation of the theft take its course.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I think there are some laws that are senseless, and are selectively enforced against groups that society or police disfavor. Marijuana possession laws are a good example of this, as well as laws or policies around how restaurants dispose of unused food. Wage theft vs. shoplifting, etc etc.

If I see someone breaking a law such that no one is harmed and the perpetrator appears to be in desperate need of the benefit they accrue by their action, then I wouldn't intervene.

Yah, I can agree with this. Some laws are built around the ability for those in power to glom onto that power as much as possible, too.

If you got unlimited funds to dump into a lawyer, you'll be in much better shape than if you use a public defender who is just trying to move onto the next case before he's even done with yours.

 

[JustGeorge]

Most of the time, I don't bother, unless someone's being hurt. Sadly, the cops seldom get there in time, even when someone is getting hurt.

I remember once, at my old house, someone parked in front of it(street parking was allowed). I was the nervous sort, so I kept looking at watching out the window to see who it was. It was a couple, clearly arguing. I didn't know them. The body language became heated. He started punching her. I called the cops, but nobody came...

I do call the cops on 'creepers', too. We seem to get a lot of those in our current neighborhood. (Creepers being someone walking up and down the same stretch of road looking in cars, or something of the like.) Cops will drive by and their presence discourages the activity. Technically, they are not breaking a law.... yet.... but why give them the chance.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Most of the time, I don't bother, unless someone's being hurt. Sadly, the cops seldom get there in time, even when someone is getting hurt.

I remember once, at my old house, someone parked in front of it(street parking was allowed). I was the nervous sort, so I kept looking at watching out the window to see who it was. It was a couple, clearly arguing. I didn't know them. The body language became heated. He started punching her. I called the cops, but nobody came...

I do call the cops on 'creepers', too. We seem to get a lot of those in our current neighborhood. (Creepers being someone walking up and down the same stretch of road looking in cars, or something of the like.) Cops will drive by and their presence discourages the activity. Technically, they are not breaking a law.... yet.... but why give them the chance.

I can understand that. I used to live in an apartment building where a drug dealer lived. He was a nice guy, and he was never mean or rude, so I didn't bother him any. There was this car behind the ally that was always there, though, and he was also selling drugs. That guy was definitely not so nice though, and I'd feel unsafe every time I went to take my dog to the bathroom at 3 in the morning when I got home from work.

Everyone in the building called the cops on him, but he just said he worked in the newspaper building he was parked in front of and the cops would believe him and drive off; either that, or they didn't want trouble, or couldn't do anything without seeing him break any laws.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

I'm an American living in Mexico. I don't expect the police to be of much help. In fact, if one invites the police into his home for any reason, he is likely be robbed. And I expect the policeman to take the side of any Mexican over ant foreigner.

Furthermore, if the crime reported is cartel related in any way, it could be dangerous to report it. So, we don't go to the police for anything.

The way we've adapted is with local Facebook groups, including crime watch sites, where people let one another know what to be careful of. Purses are frequently stolen in Wal-Mart or a parking lot. Sometimes the ruse begins with mustard or ketchup squirted on the victim as a distraction. Nobody will call the police if victimized by this. They'll just discuss MOs and security measures among themselves on the Internet such as purses with straps that can't be cut, security belts, etc..

I haven't interacted with a local police officer since about 2012, when it was a traffic stop, which brings up another interesting wrinkle for people used to living where police corruption is the exception rather than the rule. Our local police are paid so poorly that they routinely try to get foreigners to pay a bribe rather than a ticket. The bribes are cheap (I've paid $10 USD once and $25 USD once, in pesos of course), and easier than going down to the municipal office to pay a ticket, but they are illegal to request and, as I've recently learned from these Facebook groups, illegal to pay, but it is almost impossible to be caught (they expect you to put the money down in the car with door open so that nobody sees you or the cop with the money).

But when living in the states, I wouldn't hesitate to get the police involved if help were needed.

But to answer your question, did I report all infractions that I witnessed in the States? No, at least not to the police. Many, but not all. I would probably inform the victim in every case possible. I didn't report an office employee that tried to steal second paycheck for a pay period. I just fired her.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

Well there's the law, and there's the law.

Even so in some cases the lines can get blurry.

Especially if Big Tony decides to wack somebody, yea, that ought to be reported, but do you really want to? Is witness protection Big Tony proof?

I think anonymity is most effective in reporting crime, it would put Big Tony in cuffs, not so in making a case stick where Big Tony starts looking for ya once he's sprung out on bail.

I would make a risk assessment first, and secondly see if it's worth the time and trouble of reporting it. It dosent help much if all the reporting accomplished results in only a short stint and release complements of a savy lawyer.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Remember kids: If you see someone shoplifting food, no you didn't.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Remember kids: If you see someone shoplifting food, no you didn't.

How very unfrithful of you.

Actually... Joking aside, you should do a thread on this subject on the nature of Frith vs. the laws of the land in contrast to morality. That would be an interesting take on the subject.