Not Illegal Enough

[Brickjectivity]

It's a complicated subject for me. One time, I watched as a man shoplifted from Walmart. The man was tall and slender. A Walmart security guard was chasing him, who was short, fat, and not very fast. As the man shoplifting was running by me, I realized I could have just stuck my leg out and tripped them, getting him caught by the security guard. But I didn't. I'd probably end up at worst in jail over it, because good deeds don't go unpunished, or at best, I'd walk away from it with a thank you from Walmart, and the satisfaction I saved a multi billion dollar corporation like $5. But the fact is, I don't really care if someone shoplifts from a store in front of me, I'm not going to try to be a hero over it - I just won't be doing any shoplifting myself.

You made the right choice. You'd have been sued for anything that you had, even if they were guilty of shoplifting. Also the guard chasing them was risking a lawsuit, too, if evidence of shoplifting could not be obtained. It was not worth your trouble.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

How very unfrithful of you.

Actually... Joking aside, you should do a thread on this subject on the nature of Frith vs. the laws of the land in contrast to morality. That would be an interesting take on the subject.

That would be a good thread, yes. Specifically in terms of frith (social security and peace) ignoring someone stealing food from a supermarket would be keeping that frith, as no one steals food for the thrill of it.

 

[Stevicus]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

I wouldn't call the police over a jaywalker. Even if I did, it would probably take the police a while to show up, and by that time, the jaywalker would already be gone. They'd have to put out some kind of dragnet and APB about a mad jaywalker on the loose.

Although there was a time when I saw a woman carrying a baby and with another small child in tow, running across a busy street in heavy traffic. Luckily, nobody hit her, but I'm often flabbergasted by those kinds of jaywalkers. So maybe they should be reported for putting children in danger like that.

As for drug deals, that might depend on the circumstances. Let's just say that for the past few decades, I've managed to avoid places and situations where witnessing a drug deal may be likely.

For the most part, I guess I've been reasonably lucky in that I rarely have had any real cause or need to call the police, at least not for any personal reasons. If there's some kind of road hazard, I'll call it in for sure. Or if I see an accident, I've called in a few of those, although most times they've already gotten the call from someone else. I also called and reported a guy in an RV who was swerving all over the road, knocking over poles and hitting stuff along the side of the road. He was dangerous, so he had to be reported because he was creating a clear and present danger.

But I've never witnessed a robbery or a kidnapping or a shooting. I know it happens, but I've never seen anything like that firsthand.

 

[Secret Chief]

Jaywalking is not even a thing in the UK. There's no law against...er...crossing the road.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

Just because something is illegal doesn't always make it wrong.
There's a lot of goofy laws.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Just because something is illegal doesn't always make it wrong.
There's a lot of goofy laws.

Very true! Maybe you could describe an example of a law you don't necessarily respect, or maybe you'd like to talk about an instance where you turned a blind eye?

 

[SigurdReginson]

Jaywalking is not even a thing in the UK. There's no law against...er...crossing the road.

What if people were crossing the road... with intent?!

 

[Secret Chief]

What if people were crossing the road... with intent?!

As opposed to randomly?

 

[SigurdReginson]

As opposed to randomly?

Hey, get enough drinks in you and there's no other way to cross the road.

 

[infrabenji]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

I think I draw the line at seeing obvious potential or actual harm being done to someone human or animal or something. Like if I’m out and about and I see a guy kick a puppy I’d intervene. If I saw a guy buying crack I might or might not intervene but if I did it would be in a much different way one in which no party is harmed. Maybe that’s the point is reducing harm. A woman stealing baby formula from Walmart does very little if any harm. A crack head may be committing self harm and need access to resources like counseling. A guy who beats his wife, a friend of mine, and I see her at the store with 2 black eyes then I go home with her pack up all his stuff and put it on the curb with a free sign and wait for him to get home. In any case, I think in reference to what we do not let slide or do let slide it’s best to choose the option that reduces the most harm wherever possible especially for the victim.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I think I draw the line at seeing obvious potential or actual harm being done to someone human or animal or something. Like if I’m out and about and I see a guy kick a puppy I’d intervene. If I saw a guy buying crack I might or might not intervene but if I did it would be in a much different way one in which no party is harmed. Maybe that’s the point is reducing harm. A woman stealing baby formula from Walmart does very little if any harm. A crack head may be committing self harm and need access to resources like counseling. A guy who beats his wife, a friend of mine, and I see her at the store with 2 black eyes then I go home with her pack up all his stuff and put it on the curb with a free sign and wait for him to get home. In any case, I think in reference to what we do not let slide or do let slide it’s best to choose the option that reduces the most harm wherever possible especially for the victim.

Yahhh... If I saw anyone kicking a puppy or a kid, I would definitely step in.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Very true! Maybe you could describe an example of a law you don't necessarily respect, or maybe you'd like to talk about an instance where you turned a blind eye?

Buying raw milk. It's supposed to be only sold for animals unless the farmer jumps through the legal hoops. It's a silly rule, if the buyer is willing to accept the risks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So there are things that we see in our lives from time to time that are illegal that we might not necessarily call the cops or report for. Maybe someone jay walks. Maybe you see a mother with a baby shoplifting some baby formula (though in that case, I would just stop her and buy her the things she needed).

There are grey areas where people breaking the law really isn't hurting anything, and in some cases it's even understandable why it's happening.

Where do you draw the line to crimes that you witness? Are there some things that you don't particularly care about that others might report, like observing a drug deal? Maybe you have a story to tell about something you witnessed and let slide?

It took me a while to realize just how often interactions with the police end up being fatal.

These days, I recognize that calling the police has a small but definitely non-zero probability that someone will end up dead, so I would only call the police when I consider this risk acceptable considering the circumstances... and I don't consider it acceptable very often.

I live across the street from a drug dealer. Now... the cops know full well about the dealer (he's been raided 4 times that I know of in the last 5 years, and there's still a steady stream of clients coming by the house). We've never called the police about him dealing drugs, but my wife did call 911 when his girlfriend decided to brandish a handgun out on the street during a loud argument with someone, which I think was the right call.

... if that gives you an indication of where the line is for me these days.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

An older sister that worked at a local grocery store noticed a man enter wearing a tee shirt with pack of cigarettes rolled up in the sleeve. He was apparently completely clothed, but that is less significant to the story. She noticed him later as he left. Instead of cigarettes, there was what looked like a can of sardines rolled up in his sleeve. She did not report it to anyone but us.

I would report some guy stealing expensive tools, but I would look the other way for most minor food theft.

Anything that involves violence to others, I would report and have.

 

[Heyo]

Anything that involves violence to others, I would report and have.

I'd ask the victim first.
German law distinguishes "Offizialdelikte" (prosecuted by the state any how) and "Antragsdelikte" (only prosecuted if demanded). Rape is an "Offizialdelikt". I.e. the victim is not the accuser in the trial but only a witness and it would be prosecuted even against the will of the victim (and the victim can be forced with threat of imprisonment to testify).
As much as I hate the perp to get off scot free and as much as he is a danger to other women, I wouldn't report it against the will of the victim. I would strongly advise her to report it but if she isn't willing to go through a trial it would be wrong to force her.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'd ask the victim first.
German law distinguishes "Offizialdelikte" (prosecuted by the state any how) and "Antragsdelikte" (only prosecuted if demanded). Rape is an "Offizialdelikt". I.e. the victim is not the accuser in the trial but only a witness and it would be prosecuted even against the will of the victim (and the victim can be forced with threat of imprisonment to testify).
As much as I hate the perp to get off scot free and as much as he is a danger to other women, I wouldn't report it against the will of the victim. I would strongly advise her to report it but if she isn't willing to go through a trial it would be wrong to force her.

That is a very good point well worth consideration. I suppose there are a lot of possibilities that require case by case consideration even it what looks like a no brainer on the surface.

Where possible, I would want to offer any support and encouragement to a victim that I could. Still it would be a very tough call to let that go.