Not Again! Apparently Replacement Theology Kills.

[sooda]

Maybe, but that's the solution that was found.

History proves that solution to be disastrous.

 

[Harel13]

History proves that solution to be disastrous.

In what way? Will Jewish students really be better off without such a law?

 

[sooda]

In what way? Will Jewish students really be better off without such a law?

Are you reading any of the articles on this?

President Trump plans to sign an executive order Wednesday that defines the Jewish people as a nationality for purposes of federal civil rights law, an effort to step up enforcement against ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...aac2d6-1bac-11ea-87f7-f2e91143c60d_story.html

 

[Harel13]

Are you reading any of the articles on this?

President Trump plans to sign an executive order Wednesday that defines the Jewish people as a nationality for purposes of federal civil rights law, an effort to step up enforcement against ...

I read a couple of articles about it a couple of weeks ago. From my perspective, given that Jews are a nationality (our original name is Am Yisrael, the Nation of Israel), it's good that this is recognized by the American government as a means to fend off anti-semitism.

 

[sooda]

I read a couple of articles about it a couple of weeks ago. From my perspective, given that Jews are a nationality (our original name is Am Yisrael, the Nation of Israel), it's good that this is recognized by the American government as a means to fend off anti-semitism.

American Jews are the Nation of Israel?

 

[Harel13]

American Jews are the Nation of Israel?

Knowing full well that I'm entering dangerous waters here, I say yes. Notice that even completely secular Jews are still considered Jewish. If Jews were merely a religion, how would non-religious Jews be considered Jewish?

 

[sooda]

Knowing full well that I'm entering dangerous waters here, I say yes. Notice that even completely secular Jews are still considered Jewish. If Jews were merely a religion, how would non-religious Jews be considered Jewish?

OK.. Israel defines nationality differently from citizenship.

 

[Harel13]

OK.. Israel defines nationality differently from citizenship.

So in your opinion, how could this law make things worse?

 

[sooda]

So in your opinion, how could this law make things worse?

I have a vague sense of unease about setting Jewish people apart. But then I thought Semite was a language group until I was 17. Anti-Semite became a thing in 19th century Germany.. and I knew that.

Will we pass such laws with penalties for Arabs or WASPS?

 

[oldbadger]

Last week two Black assailants killed a cop in a cemetery, then drove a mile to a kosher grocery store and killed three Jews that were inside. After a long shootout with the cops, both the shooters were also killed. I've been in shock for days.

It bothered me that officials were so slow to label it a hate crime, because it was so obvious. The killers walked across the street, ignoring all sorts of people they could have killed, making a bee-line for the kosher market. IOW the kosher market was targeted. Though slow to announce it, officials finally said it was a hate crime, an act of domestic terrorism.

A quasi manifesto was left in the van, three pages long, filled with hatred towards cops and Jews. All sorts of guns, and a pipe bomb were also left in the van. It was obvious that this was only the beginning of what they intended to be a killing spree. Next door to the grocery store was a school, with all sorts of little children hiding on the second floor. I'm terrified that would have been next. Baruch Hashem for the police, who stopped the carnage at its beginning.

One of the shooters was associated with a group called the Black Hebrew Israelites. It is not clear whether he had officially joined, but he espoused their ideas. The group is a cult that is on the terrorist watch list. They believe that whites are the devil, that Jews are fake Israel, and that Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans are the True Israel. In other words, a form of Replacement Theology.

I have always said that Replacement Theology (also known as Supersessionism) is the manure that fertilizes anti-Semitism. It's typical form is to believe that physical Israel has passed away, and the Church is now Israel, replacing physical Israel, and inheriting Israel's promises. Until the holocaust, this was the typical belief of Christians. However, after the Shoah, most Christian churches recognized it as one of the reasons for the deaths of the six million Jews, and repudiated it (most notably the Catholic Church). Today, the doctrine is held only by evangelicals and fundamentalists and fringe groups. The RT of the Black Hebrew Israelites is an extreme version, but it shows the connection to anti-Semitism. After all, if they are the true Israel, what are Jews except pretenders?

It seems like every time I turn around lately, there is another shooting of Jews here in America. Pittsburgh. Poway. Now Jersey City. The USA is supposed to be the safest place for Jews, and it doesn't feel very safe anymore.

Hmmmm..... Why was the skin colour of the murderers so important?

Don't take the 3000 Christian churches and plump them all together.

Whoever we are there are some folks ranged against us, so don't think that your case is more important than others.

Here in the UK Jews, Muslims, Christians and secular folks have all been targeted by hate murderers, we mostly try to empathise with all families of victims. We mostly would give thoughts to the victims mentioned by you as well.

 

[Harel13]

Will we pass such laws with penalties for Arabs or WASPS?

Who knows? Is there basis for these groups? WASPS aren't a nationality, though.

 

[sooda]

Who knows? Is there basis for these groups? WASPS aren't a nationality, though.

Nationality in the sense of being a citizen of a particular nation or in the sense of a distinctive national or ethnic character?

 

[Harel13]

I have a vague sense of unease about setting Jewish people apart

Do you know of the European emancipation laws during the Enlightenment period? Jews were no longer set apart, they had equal rights, Jews started mass assimilation - but it didn't help. Pogroms continued, there was the Dreyfus affair, and ultimately, the Holocaust. And now Jews are being hurt on campuses. How well has making them the same worked out?

 

[Harel13]

Nationality in the sense of being a citizen of a particular nation or in the sense of a distinctive national or ethnic character?

Oh, I see your point.

 

[sooda]

Do you know of the European emancipation laws during the Enlightenment period? Jews were no longer set apart, they had equal rights, Jews started mass assimilation - but it didn't help. Pogroms continued, there was the Dreyfus affair, and ultimately, the Holocaust. And now Jews are being hurt on campuses. How well has making them the same worked out?

I know.. and I am not trying to offend you. People are hurt on campuses and in the general population every day.. innocent people of every creed and color.

 

[Harel13]

I know.. and I am not trying to offend you

It's not offensive, it's just a sad situation. Don't we all just want to live in peace?

I found it interesting that the OU (Orthodox Union), one of the largest religious Jewish organizations in the US and outside of it, are all for the law, while secular Jewish organizations were against it. I wonder if it's specifically because the originators of the law is the Trump administration or if it's because they are of the belief that there should be as little as possible differences between Jews and other people?

 

[sooda]

It's not offensive, it's just a sad situation. Don't we all just want to live in peace?

I found it interesting that the OU (Orthodox Union), one of the largest religious Jewish organizations in the US and outside of it, are all for the law, while secular Jewish organizations were against it. I wonder if it's specifically because the originators of the law is the Trump administration or if it's because they are of the belief that there should be as little as possible differences between Jews and other people?

I don't know the answer. My Jewish friends and I have many are sort of reformed I guess. Some keep Kosher.. some don't. Some go to Synagogues regularly.. ALL value their traditions.. and all are fairly liberal. I have no doubt that all of them would fight for my civil rights if they were threatened.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hmmmm..... Why was the skin colour of the murderers so important?

It's not terribly important, but important enough a detail to mention. Why? Because many in the progressive left believe that racism is always systemic, meaning that a Black can never be racist. The incident in question is proof that this is not so. It is tangential to the main thrust of the post, but I still think it is too significant a part of the narrative to leave out. It would be like leaving out that the folks that were killed were Jews.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Last week two Black assailants killed a cop in a cemetery, then drove a mile to a kosher grocery store and killed three Jews that were inside. After a long shootout with the cops, both the shooters were also killed. I've been in shock for days.

It bothered me that officials were so slow to label it a hate crime, because it was so obvious. The killers walked across the street, ignoring all sorts of people they could have killed, making a bee-line for the kosher market. IOW the kosher market was targeted. Though slow to announce it, officials finally said it was a hate crime, an act of domestic terrorism.

A quasi manifesto was left in the van, three pages long, filled with hatred towards cops and Jews. All sorts of guns, and a pipe bomb were also left in the van. It was obvious that this was only the beginning of what they intended to be a killing spree. Next door to the grocery store was a school, with all sorts of little children hiding on the second floor. I'm terrified that would have been next. Baruch Hashem for the police, who stopped the carnage at its beginning.

One of the shooters was associated with a group called the Black Hebrew Israelites. It is not clear whether he had officially joined, but he espoused their ideas. The group is a cult that is on the terrorist watch list. They believe that whites are the devil, that Jews are fake Israel, and that Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans are the True Israel. In other words, a form of Replacement Theology.

I have always said that Replacement Theology (also known as Supersessionism) is the manure that fertilizes anti-Semitism. It's typical form is to believe that physical Israel has passed away, and the Church is now Israel, replacing physical Israel, and inheriting Israel's promises. Until the holocaust, this was the typical belief of Christians. However, after the Shoah, most Christian churches recognized it as one of the reasons for the deaths of the six million Jews, and repudiated it (most notably the Catholic Church). Today, the doctrine is held only by evangelicals and fundamentalists and fringe groups. The RT of the Black Hebrew Israelites is an extreme version, but it shows the connection to anti-Semitism. After all, if they are the true Israel, what are Jews except pretenders?

It seems like every time I turn around lately, there is another shooting of Jews here in America. Pittsburgh. Poway. Now Jersey City. The USA is supposed to be the safest place for Jews, and it doesn't feel very safe anymore.

One can hold to traditional Christian beliefs on the matter without holding hatred in your heart, nevermind being violent towards others. I believe that the Church is spiritual Israel that has inherited the promises of the nation of Israel and that all salvation is through Christ but it's not my place to judge anyone let alone say God has no use for an entire people.

 

[oldbadger]

It's not terribly important, but important enough a detail to mention. Why? Because many in the progressive left believe that racism is always systemic, meaning that a Black can never be racist. The incident in question is proof that this is not so. It is tangential to the main thrust of the post, but I still think it is too significant a part of the narrative to leave out. It would be like leaving out that the folks that were killed were Jews.

Nah!
Your big point about colour of the murderers is itself racist.
Your complete failure to mention the other folks murdered in that crime, the police officers, is surely racist as well?

We do recognise terrorist crimes where I live and we find that the victims often come from a wide range of races, colours, creeds, nationalities, politics and cultures. Sometimes the terrorism is aimed at the people generally.

I'm always sorry to hear of murders, especially mass murders, but the killers also come from a wide range of backgrounds.

Do you feel as bad when Mexicans, or Muslims, or Women's rights activists are murdered? It's good to be open minded.